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So if your team had possession of the ball 75% of the time, but still couldn't score, then you wouldn't say that your team was better than the other team for that game and is just too bad they couldn't score? What would you say to that? lol And what did Gottschee do to you that you hate them so much? your boy try out for the team and didn't make it?
So if your team had possession of the ball 75% of the time, but still couldn't score, then you wouldn't say that your team was better than the other team for that game? What would you say to that? lol And what did Gottschee do to you that you hate them so much? your boy try out for the team and didn't make it?
So if your team had possession of the ball 75% of the time, but still couldn't score, then you wouldn't say that your team was better than the other team for that game? What would you say to that? lol And what did Gottschee do to you that you hate them so much? your boy try out for the team and didn't make it?
I'm not entirely sure that the facts above about the Gunners are entirely correct. In fact I know for a fact that they recruit because they attempted to recruit my son just this past season. To my understanding there's at least half the kids or more from outside of Montclair as was told to me. We chose not to join due to the larger then normal drop off of players each season. How do you lose three, four, five or more players each season without adding new players. All teams go through this, of course it's not the same team season to season. But our question way more about why so we went a different direction. But either way it's not about one single aspect it's about a combination of coaching, clubs, players, development, etc. There's at least two dozen teams in Jersey that do a good job otf it.
LOL So if your team had possession of the ball 75% of the time, but could not kick the ball into the net to score even with 10 shots on goal, what would you call that? Would you still say that your team was not better than the other team, and it just didn't happen to score? lol
are you sure that's a Gottschee parent you're taunting? come to think of it - what did Gottschee do to you? Did your boy try out for the team and didn't make it? is that why you hate Gottschee so much?
Rumors flying regarding a Parsippany raid of Stallions Gunner players to bring with them to the Super Y finals in Florida this December. I don't know what's tackier...Parsippany going to the Stallions or the Stallions club allowing it in light of the fact that their A team Stallions 99/00 are competing as winners of their division. I guess they see it as the possibility for an all Stallions final LOL. Geez, Youth Soccer...you can't make this stuff up.
GotSoccer has now included points for fall EDP league play based on teams' current standings. While these awards will probably change over time for many, they have shaken up the State rankings already. The biggest change is for the Black Dawgs who have pushed up to #8 based on their 1st place EDP Central position.
And another interesting development is the field for the upcoming MAPS Challenge. There are now 7 teams currently ranked in the top 1% nationally on the Applied Team list. So the top flight in this one looks certain to have a 10,000 point value. Princeton Black, Marlboro, Gottschee Roma, SFL, SJEB, EB and Pachuca (who currently sit atop the EDP 1st Division South) are all on the list. Too bad this one will be played at Ft. Dix and not Tuckahoe.
It looks like Fall EDP and MAPS Elite are now included. The list looks a lot more like the season end predicted rankings from the report card above. Notable differences include the following...
SFL is still in the top 5, but they have not lost last year's sate cup points yet so this is temporary. Gottschee Roma's 15min. of fame will soon come to a close. It looks like they have left the door open for one of two teams to become the top dog. EBSC is out of the top 5, but this too is temporary. They finished the hard part of the season and will likely gain another 2-3K points out of EDP league play. EBSC are also favored tomorrow to at least get to the finals for another 3K or so points. IF EBSC wins state cup they can actually regain the #1 ranking in NJ and possibly hold it through season end. Princeton Black could regain the #1 spot in NJ also with a state cup win OR 2 wins against the Black Dawgs in upcoming matches (state cup semis tomorrow and 11/10 EDP 1st match). Either way, the Black Dawgs stand smack in the way of Princeton regaining the #1 ranking in NJ! Should make for an exciting state cup semi-final match tomorrow!
All this seems to just be setting up the MAPS Challenge to decide it all by season end! This once 2nd tier tourney is shaping up to be bigger than EDP Cup...the biggest tourney of the fall! The applied teams list is now a powerhouse list and will bring maximum tourney points (10K). It will surely still be close at the top of NJ regardless of who is sitting #1 at the time of the Challenge. That means the best performer at the MAPS Challenge will probably be the one who finishes the season #1 in NJ.
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Regarding GS and EDP league points, the points earned for last fall also expired when they added the new points for this season. So while this year's awards will change as the current standings do, this makes the rankings more current (and relevant) by relying on what's happened so far this year as opposed to how last year finished. Surely the Black Dawgs are a top 10 team at this point and this approach puts them there.
Looks like GS waits until about half of the season is played before doing this. This way these "temporary" awards are at least a reasonable reflection of how the standings will look by the end of the season.
October 23 11:03AM. .. Are you still talking about last week's 0-0 game? Parents are so funny! You didn't have close to 10 shots all game let alone 10 on goal. Get reall! ...and yes if you had 10 SOG and missed them all something would probably be wrong!
We didn't try out for your team and I have nothing against them. Our team is about to win state cup. One thing we know for sure. It won't happen by bossing the other team 0-0.
"We didn't try out for your team and I have nothing against them. Our team is about to win state cup. One thing we know for sure. It won't happen by bossing the other team 0-0."
Well I guess you weren't the numerous Princeton Black parents who were saying how badly they were outplayed and were lucky to get a point out after last week's match with Gottschee.
So maybe you're the parent of the player who committed repeated (and at times violent) fouls?
And regarding GS's #1, don't be so sure that Gottschee won't be adding some league points before any State Cup awards are made. In other words, Gottschee will still be on top next week no matter what happens today.
But that's really all from me to you as you really are to dumb to keep chastising.
October 25, 2013 at 11:10 AM "Either way, the Black Dawgs stand smack in the way of Princeton regaining the #1 ranking in NJ! Should make for an exciting state cup semi-final match tomorrow!"
October 26, 2013 at 8:13 AM "....and correction to 11:10AM above. Princeton only needs to win today's semi-final match to move back to #1 in NJ!"
Okay, so reading comprehension isn't your strong suit either.
They're right about you ... reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.
"You didn't have close to 10 shots all game let alone 10 on goal. Get reall! ...and yes if you had 10 SOG and missed them all something would probably be wrong! "
I was asking about your team in that post, so you just confirmed that something would be wrong with your team.
"We didn't try out for your team and I have nothing against them. Our team is about to win state cup. One thing we know for sure. It won't happen by bossing the other team 0-0. "
No, you won't be bossing the other team. You would need your players to play dirty and violent to get anywhere close to 0-0.
For somebody who has nothing against another team, you sure talk a lot of trash against them! Now, that's funny!
Very unlikely outcome, but they hung in there to take the cup.
I saw the game between them and EBSC, and although EB had 90% possession and attack, DOL managed to hold them off to head into PKs.
EB just cpuldnt finish......shame on them.
Funny that the DOL parents were screaming in joy, they should focus more on having their coach teach them how to possess and pass.......not just do and run.
The DoL will be the ones counting their points. All the way to top 10 in NJ. Will they join EDP for spring? Can anyone in NJ beat them?
Someone above commented the top 12 teams in NJ offer great coaching. Really? Why did so many top ranked teams get bested by DoL? I think this calls into question the whole idea of "my kid plays in a higher ranked league/team therefore he is getting better development surrounded by better players and coaches." It's just not true. A higher ranked team just means more man children still playing jungle ball and that doesn't help your kid develop.
Let's break that stupid myth in NJ! Maybe then we will start to develop real players. I looked at the video on the other page. Not one top 10 ranked team plays like the 2nd half of the video. I've seen them all. The ONLY difference between the the top 10 ranked teams and other good MAPS teams is the size of the players. Princeton, Gottschee, Marlboro, EBSC, Haddonfield...you know it...which one doesn't have one or several players that you look at and just say "no way that kid is under 14." He probably is. My point is every one of the coaches has taken the easy route and collected the big kids. Otherwise they would just be coaching another MAPS team and not a top 10 EDP team. For all the parents crowing about their kids and good soccer, let's face it. Your team has probably never played quality soccer even when you won. NJ soccer is an advertisement for bad quality soccer. Maybe Redbull or Cedar Stars academy stand apart. Maybe some kudos should be given to Haddonfield and the old Millburn for embracing a simple kick and run style with good hustle. Maybe, but where are the coaches to teach teams to play like the 2nd half of the video? Wouldn't it be cool to step on the field on Saturday and watch your top 10 teams play like that? Why doesn't it exist in NJ?
My bad. I got that reversed. Wouldn't it be nice to see our teams play like the 1st half. Those kids look younger than U14 too. Gotsoccer ranking. What ajoke.
They did not string more than two passes against EBSC. As matter of fact, EBSC goalie gave them that goal as a gift by making a mistake. Other that, you had one........count it....ONE shot on goal!
Have DOL play any of the top 10 NJ teams again, and they lose 8 out of 10 times. I hope DOL do join EDP.........we'll be seeing them at the bottom of the bracket very quickly.
Sit there oblivious with your points, because you're not getting any more any time soon.
"Princeton only needs to win today's semi-final match to move back to #1 in NJ!...Our team is about to win state cup...Keep bragging and counting your points though."
Just some advice on "bragging and counting points"...
Try to wait until the team you support actually earns the points before you start bragging about them. This way you don't look like such a fool when you're wrong.
I suppose no youth soccer blog is complete without an idiot. So thanks for taking the job.
So EBSC parent...because your goalie made a mistake that goal didn't count? I suppose the Marlboro goalie missed one too. And the Black Dawgs goalie? You have to be the one kidding.
It wasn't just one lucky game. We played and won against 3 of the top 5 teams in the state to get the cup. How do you explain that? I KNOW we didn't play the best quality soccer. That is the difference between us. Go cry with that GOTscheeSOCCER boss guy. I'll bet he will explain away his loss to PDA on goalie errors too!
Congrats to DoL on a great result in the State Cup tournament!
And no excuses on the PDA game. No vicious play from Rooney. No egregious refereeing errors. The game looked like it would be 5-0 Gottschee after about 10 minutes but then a gift of a goal to PDA evened it out a bit. And then, after reclaiming the lead, Gottschee's inability to pad it by repeatedly failing to finish one-on-one against PDA's keeper (who had a very good game) kept Rooney in it. By the end Rooney looked like the team that wanted it more and the result reflects thsy. So congrats to them too on their first EDP win.
But my point is don't be so proud on how you got the results. Your opponents are beating themselves....not that you are actually beating them.
Seeing it any other way is just kidding yourself.
You admitted that DOL does not play quality soccer (biggest understatement), so for the good of your players, have your coach teach them how tto play the game properly.
None of that kick and run crap that was played this weekend.
As I said...congrats to DOL......
But don't expect them to get that lucky again any time soon.
And please apply for EDP....would love to see you in our level of play!
How the heck did DOL go on that winning streak? They beat the best teams in the State from the 32nd ranked position? This is the same tam that plays in MAPS and lost to Manalapan? How????
This is not a trend that will continue based on their level of play and kick and run style. If their team had a good style and talented players, i would definitely agree that they are a team to look out for.
As the saying goes....even a broken clock is correct twice a day!
Nice clock analogy. Does a clock tell time correctly three times a day? because we beat top 5 teams 3 times.
Why shouldn't I be proud? We won state cup. I never said we don't play quality soccer. I said "best". Always room for improvement, but let's be clear EBSC parent. We beat you so our quality was better than yours on Saturday.
Den of lions please don't kid yourselves. You lose to teams like mt olive and Middletown. Congrats on your bad news bear State cup run and I would make you sure you keep hold of this moment very right and close to your body because you will never experienced such a high achievement within youth soccer again.
Your team stinks to watch. Your team made millburns kick and run like an arsenal possession play. You are a disgrace to the game of soccer and you should be ashamed.
Den of Lions way back was known as quality soccer and really top level teams. You had your streak, you had your moment. Too bad if you played those same teams 10 times, they would beat you 9. You would never last in the edp first or second division. You would be a 2-9 soccer team.
Enjoy- your team was embarrassing to watch. The only ppl who would ever clapping for wining your title would be parents of players, all other spectators watched your 3 games and walked away shaking their heads with being completely confused as how does a coach and parent allow such garbage on the field. You belong in Morris county league with all the other kids who don't know anything about the game.
Neutral party here just letting you know that you're making yourself look bad here.
DoL won the State Cup and the DoL gloater deserves his fun.
I thought EB played much better looking soccer on Saturday myself. But that doesn't really matter as the tournament rewards the team that wins the match.
I don't doubt EB would beat DoL 10 straight times going forward if they were to play the games. But they didn't beat them on Saturday so it would be cool if you'd chill with the sour grapes.
Why is it assumed that it is an EBSC parent posting these negative comments? Princeton and Hoddonfield parents were there as well. I am pretty sure even Marlboro parents were present to watch (given it was in their own backyard).
I am an EBSC parent and I congratulate DOL for their win.....no matter how it was achieved. The fact that EBSC could not put balls in the net should not diminish DOL's win.
DOL are state champs....and that's all there's to it.
DEN OF LIONS should move to #7! Not too bad, but then again making a run through the old state cup champ Titans then top 5 Marlboro then top 5 EBSC then top performing fall team Haddonfield is very impressive! Now that state cup is finished and the one or two teams that often come out of nowhere are included (Den of Lions and Black Dawgs this season) the updated season end rankings estimates are as follows.
"Hmmm. Could it be that my posts are not being published?"
Okay, obviously not.
Regarding Princeton Black, maybe the fact that they received 8 yellows and a red card in just two recent games (while their opponents received no discipline) might have some concerned about foul play. And I can assure you they deserved at least one other red.
Just saw the post from October 25, 2013 at 6:17 AM regarding poaching from Parsipanny to take Stallions players to Florida. I think that is pathetic of the Stallions knowing their other team is there competing already. So let's get this straight the Stallions 99/00 earn their way while others pay their way? What messages are we sending to our kids?
Any word on flighting for the MAPS Challenge yet? It looks like the top flight value will be 10K points and the 2nd flight worth at least 6K points as well. Princeton Black and BSM Gottschee will be the top seeds, but the early favorite will have to be Pachuca from MD. They have rolled through the best of the Northeast this fall. The NJ teams have been less consistent and it is a questionable whether ANY NJ team can deal with them. Pachuca's last butt whooping came at the hands (or feet) of Gottschee so maybe there is hope. That would make for an exciting final! The Stallions 99/00 look to be on the cusp of the top flight to me. It would be cool to see them step up in level of competition. They deserve it.
I took a look at GS rankings last night and saw a whole new development there call "Tier." It's gone again today so it looks like a it's work in progress.
There looked to be tier levels assigned to each team (next to the points column) based on thei point totals/rankings. Top ranked teams had been placed in the "Diamond" tier and there were also Platinum, Gold, Silver, Premium and N/A (that I saw anyway). Tier rankings didn't appear to be consistent across National, Regional and State rankings for all teams though. Highly ranked NJ teams like the current state top 7 were listed as "Diamond" tier in the State, Regional and National rankings. But teams ranked below them (ex: Ironbound, SFL) were Diamond on a state level but Premium in the National rankings (I only saw Diamond and Premium tiers in the national rankings).
I couldn't find any explanation of the criteria for the tiers assignments so I guess that will show up eventually, assuming they carry through with this idea.
This development, along with their recent addition of bonus points for all wins (30 points) and draws (10 points) in GS events, leads me to believe they have a number of changes in the works. So good for them for making an effort to improve their process.
"The Stallions 99/00 look to be on the cusp of the top flight to me."
I'd agree (assuming it's an 8 team top fight). And they probably should be included (with SFL dropped to the 2nd flight).
But I wonder if the Tournament Director may want to add a bit more of an out of state flavor to this group. NJ's Gottschee, Black, Marlboro, EB, and SJEB have to be shoe-ins, right? So might they include Pleasant Valley (along with Pachuca and Europa) instead of the Stallions?
There is a number, but that number is really only 2!
In theory EB and Marlboro could move up in EDP AND win MAPS Challenge to take the #1 spot. Realitstically, EB will almost surely move up EDP league standings, but I expect Marlboro will drop. They have no easy games in their final 4 including match-ups with Haddonfield (#3) and Gottschee (#1). I expect they walk away with only 4 more points on the season. SJEB is so unrealistic they can win MAPS Challenge and they still fall short. They would ALSO need help from the current #1 to fall even lower than 7th place in EDP currently AND get no points at MAPS Challenge. Realistically, only 2 teams have shots at taking the #1 ranking at MAPS Challenge...EBSC and Princeton Black.
"They would ALSO need help from the current #1 to fall even lower than 7th place in EDP currently AND get no points at MAPS Challenge."
I think this may be wrong. Should SJEB beat an out-of-state team in the MAPS Challenge final and Gottschee fail to place there or move up in the EDP League standings, I think this could put SJEB over the top. So while I've already said it's unlikely, I don't think we can say it's impossible.
And I think you missed the spirit of my post. My underlying point was the new State Cup Champs have taught us that sometimes things we don't think can happen come to pass.
"This development, along with their recent addition of bonus points for all wins (30 points) and draws (10 points) in GS events, leads me to believe they have a number of changes in the works. So good for them for making an effort to improve their process."
By improving their process you mean feeding the monster that is GS right? By now including points for wins and ties it's now forcing leagues to want to sign up to be a GS sponsored league as well. If you win a game outside of GS I don't believe you get the 30 pts right? $$$$$$$$$$$$$
I, for one, am tired of "relative success" in the world's most popular sport. Let's develop young men who can succeed because of their soccer experience in NJ, not despite it.
Very interesting blog, but let's keep it real. When your typical study abroad 14 year old boy couldn't jump on one of these teams and be a star then let's talk.
Gotsoccer is a success! If you parents didn't demand it then they would not succeed. Put them down if you will, but you keep them in business and that won't change anytime soon. I just wish they had a way to compare academy teams to top EDP club teams. Most would say, "Oh Academy much better than EDP!" Really? Not always. Look how NYSC kids are doing in USSF DA U13/U14 this fall. How do you think Cedar Stars will do next fall at academy level? I bet they win even over NYRB which is undefeated at '00 age group, but I would argue look weak compared to other years. It's not always so clear.
There are American kids in our '00 age group playing FC Barcelona Academy and at other Champions League team academies. Not many, but they exist.
USSF DA guidelines are a good start or really outline. The start should be a distinct playing philosophy that the coach conveys and really pursues in training. Sounds simple, but 99% of top NJ teams would fail being able to say YES to that.
Another new "merger" has been announced with World Class and Manhattan SC getting together.
"The plan includes the joint development of US Soccer Development Academy and Elite Club National League teams. In addition, the two programs are working on development plans for the construction of new playing fields in the metropolitan area."
There are a couple teams in a couple age groups that compete with the best DA teams. We've seen that now. I think that likely means there are a few more that compete with the mid-tier and lower DA teams. Given that the age categories are different it is difficult to rank. A U13 DA team can and probably does have older kids, but if you added some earlier '00s from #1 U14 club Gottschee to the late '00/01s on #1 U13 club Cedar Stars you would have a DA age equivalent team of calendar year '00s. This isn't a silly hypothetical as both play and practice near each other. That team would surely crush any current '00 DA team including the undefeated NYRB and that team would also have more national team call-ups than any other DA team.
Well maybe I was being inflammatory without being clear, but I still think it is a valid point. For example, if you were to host a typical 14 year old Dutch exchange student in your house that is male (not female) I am willing to bet that he would drop into any of these lineups and do excellent.
Yes, there is an American or two at La Masia, but certainly they are not from NJ and never will be with the descriptions of the kind of soccer we play here at the top level. The enlightened environments that these American prodigies come from sound so removed from here... playing out of the back... I do not think I have seen the word "possession" once on this thread.
So let's keep it real. It is all provincial success we are talking about here but the context of a global sport looms.
Please let's hear about a NJ team/coach/player doing well outside of NJ. If there is none then please start to question why this is. I think that is relevant to the topic at hand.
"World Class is already USSF DA. Why do they need to merge w/ Manhattan SC? What do they get out of it?"
Just a guess on my part, but I suspect the mention of new field development plans has a lot to do with it. And the potential to attract players for whom Orangeburg is too far north might be attractive to WC as well.
As the USSF DA, I'm guessing that WC is driving the bus on this one, but I'm not close enough to either club to know that.
"...if you were to host a typical 14 year old Dutch exchange student in your house that is male (not female) I am willing to bet that he would drop into any of these lineups and do excellent."
I think you'd have been right aout this as recently as a decade ago, but not any longer. The best Dutch 14 year olds are better than their counterparts from NJ for sure. But the "typical" Dutch 14 year old is not.
And I can think of 5 pretty well know current professional players who spent a significant part of their youth development in NJ:
Juan Agudelo Jozy Altidore Michael Bradley Tim Howard Giuseppe Rossi
Finally, there's been discussion of possession in this thread. And there's been disdain expressed about direct (kick n run) styles of play.
Juan Agudelo Jozy Altidore Michael Bradley Tim Howard Giuseppe Rossi
I am with you that I get a particular jolt of pride when I hear the NJ accent of most of the above players interviewed after an important international match.
However, I'd venture to say that most of the above succeeded despite being from NJ rather than because of it. Maybe Tim Howard is great because he is from Jersey... I'll give you that. Maybe our string of serious homegrown success starts with goalies and expands from there, but it's kind of hard to imagine from what I've seen and heard.
From what I have heard here none of the top teams are playing possession like it is described by Claudia Reyna in the US Soccer Curriculum of 2012 as the Style of Play. Also of note, the program that delivered youth boys abroad to Barcelona's La Masia is built on possession... so it is possible to have individual success from a possession team.
Where are the youth Boys clubs/teams in NJ that play possession? How high up the international soccer ladder have their best players gone? That's what I want to hear about. That's what is most interesting to me... along with EDP results too...
Let's not pretend there isn't a larger picture or even several larger pictures to this sport our kids love so much. It cheapens their experience.
"From what I have heard here none of the top teams are playing possession like it is described by Claudia Reyna in the US Soccer Curriculum of 2012 as the Style of Play."
From what you've heard? I try to reserve comments on things I haven't seen myself.
BTW, you must know that Claudio Reyna is from NJ.
"Let's not pretend there isn't a larger picture or even several larger pictures to this sport our kids love so much."
A larger picture than NJ U14 Boys soccer? Nah, no one who posts here has any awareness of that. Good thing you've dropped by to "keep it real" for us though! What a useful contribution!
Actually I did not know that Claudio Reyna is from NJ and that is great that such an enlightened coach comes from here, but where are the NJ coaches following his plan? It's been available for 2 years.
What I have seen in NJ soccer at all levels is what is described as "No development" in the second half of this video.
This video was put out by the club that exported a 14 year old boy to Barcelona's La Masia.
What I'm wondering about in NJ is soccer like the first half of the video. What they are calling "Development". Look at the video. What does your team most resemble; the first 2 minutes or the second 2 minutes?
I do not have to see every team's games to catch wind of the fact that we are scouting and possibly recruiting from our neighbor's teams for the end product of trophy chasing.
Again look at possession soccer... I do not think it is to far off topic to wonder if it can be done by NJ U14 boys and how they can go when exposed.
There are a couple teams in a couple age groups that compete with the best DA teams. We've seen that now. I think that likely means there are a few more that compete with the mid-tier and lower DA teams.
Been on both sides of both a top 5 EDP Team and a DA Team. I can honestly say this is not the case. Perhaps at the 01 and 00 levels a few could compete but at the 99 level and above absolutely not the case. I have seen a few friendlies between mid tier DA and top EDP teams and it's not pretty soccer.DA teams much more quality as a group not to mention bigger, stronger and faster.
I agree at the '99 level. I too have seen both. The '99s are really good from PDA, Matchfit, NYRB, to Gottschee...the '00 class at DA now doesn't appear as imposing. How much do you think it is due to physical...bigger, stronger...and how much to quality of play? I think it's interesting a bunch of the national team call-ups are coming from clubs in '00 age and they were almost solely DA's in '99. Maybe that says something.
There is an exception at the '99 level. NYSC. They just joined DA from club level and are hugging #2 at USSF DA U13/U14 ahead of all, but NYRB.
That is an impressive list of names for NJ. I wonder how it compares to other states like CA (population adjusted). I bet it will be a bigger list for the coming generation which is great, but think how pitifully small it is coming form a NJ population of just under 9 million compared to what Catalonia produces with about 7.5million. Okay, not exactly a fair comparison, but it does show what is possible.
I think the ability to develop high level professional players in NJ (or anywhere else in this country) is still hampered by our country's overall athletic culture. Specifically, the path to professional development in US sport almost invariably leads a player through collegiate competition first.
But from a football perspective, the rest of the world just doesn't work this way. I can recall reading an article in the NY Times a few years ago where the head of youth development for the FA in England was saying that the US was starting to get it right, up until the U17 age. But that college was not the proper next step for player development at that point.
I think the top cubs in NJ (and elsewhere in the US) are doing a decent job of developing collegiate players. And given the culture here, that's exactly what they should be doing.
Ironbound defeats TSF 2-1. Impressive win for them. With a win tomorrow they can move out of last place in EDP and be replaced by BSM Gottschee in last place.
I think the gap between the top 10 teams is basically nothing in NJ.
The top clubs are doing a good job of developing collegiate players? ....11:41PM
That is the same as developing high school players while ignoring there is a much better level of quality out there in DA. Even D1 is just the next level of sub-par players at the world class level. Is that really our barometer of success?
If you want to become a lawyer or a doctor then get there with the grades and studying. Please don't me my doctor or lawyer that got to that place through playing soccer. That is even more scary than the idea of settling for 2nd class quality soccer in the USA. How about NJ develop the best quality teams first and then the best quality pro players 2nd?
"If you want to become a lawyer or a doctor then get there with the grades and studying. Please don't me my doctor or lawyer that got to that place through playing soccer. That is even more scary than the idea of settling for 2nd class quality soccer in the USA. How about NJ develop the best quality teams first and then the best quality pro players 2nd?"
Sorry, but you've become very tiresome for me. Perhaps you could go berate the Europeans for the lousy baseball payers they produce. Have you seen the Dutch team? They typical 14 year old little leaguer here would be a star over there!
The MAPS Challenge brackets have been posted and I'm surprised to see SFL included in the top flight along with the 7 teams I expected to see there. So it's Gottschee, Marlboro, Pachuca and SJEB in one group and EB, Europa, PB and SFL in the other.
My guess would be a Stallions Boys/Pleasant Valley final in the 2nd group.
34 U14 teams in all in 5 different flights. So the age group remains a very active one.
Is this the teams DOL beat to win State Cup? Millburn, Marlboro, East Brunswick, Haddonfield? If they didn't connect one pass all month that is still pretty impressive. Congrats to them.
Gauging the quality of teams that "you beat" by kicking and dumping the ball does not make you a better team. Those teams beat themselves........you got lucky.....and NO....you did not string more than two passes.
Keep living in your fantasy world....and be proud of the crap you call soccer.
Assuming the Gunners will take care of business against a pointless NJSA team in their final league match, next week's showdown with their Stallions club mates looks like the 2nd Central Division final!
November 3 8:44PM. Yep. Can't argue with you. 4 top ranked teams in a row beat themselves and we won. I will retreat to my fantasy world, but I am bringing my shiny new cup with me! Too bad you don't have one in your real world.
So is DoL playing in MAPS? would think that now that they have shown how they can beat top teams that they are ready to play with the big boys. Or will they be a one-cup wonder?
How so? Are you suggesting teams should just pass the ball or aim wide of the goal once the score reaches 7-0?
Personally, I think I'd find chasing the other team around while being toyed with more frustrating than continuing to play and fishing the ball out of my goal repeatedly.
This "mercy" approach may be appropriate at younger ages. But I think the boys are old enough now to deal with the real world.
From my experience, people from other parts of the world find the American "mercy" approach to be as dumb as it gets.
"Switch players around, play a man down, try different combinations. Pretty simple to do."
Gottschee used about 18 players yesterday with all of them getting big chunks of time on the field. And playing a man down when trying to protect a clean sheet seems a bit generous to me.
Ironbound had beaten TSF the day before and also had a draw in 4 previous league matches before yesterday. I'm not saying they weren't mis-flighted in the EDP 1st Division, but the result was a surprise to just about everyone.
The score had plenty to do with Ironbound hanging their heads at some point, but Gottschee's play was the real story.
We fault teams when they don't play well. But then we also fault them when the pay spectacularly?
Ironbound has gone through changes this season and has played competitively much of the time. Every team goes through transitions. These are kids. I'm pretty sure they aren't embarrassed and couldn't care less today. I hope so because next year the shoe may be on the other foot even at some other team. It's just not that important.
It does beg a question. There are no mercy rules at this age. Should teams change how they play when they get as far ahead as 5 goals or even 10 to show mercy? Switch players around...sure that seems like an easy change, but take players out...stop scoring? Is that the answer? What should a team do?
Gottschee made a lot of changes as the game progressed yesterday keeping many of their "first 11" on the bench for extended periods and having those on the field play positions they usually don't.
In the end, it made little difference who played where for them as they all played well everywhere. The 10 goals were scored by 8 different players and a number of others made essential contributions to the various build ups. Defensively, they rarely allowed Ironbound across midfield but dealt with them quickly and effectively on all but one of the rare occasions this happened. There was one early Gottschee error that provided Ironbound with a decent chance. It was the only one they got all day.
"What should a team do?"
You mean when the game has already been "won" yet there's still time on the clock?
This same Gottschee team trailed Haddonfield by 4 goals with about 10 minutes to go earlier this season when the Black Dawgs decided to "switch things up." By the time Gottschee had scored 3 goals and cut the lead to just 1, I can assure you that Haddonfield wished they hadn't taken their foot of the gas.
So what should a team do? I say keep playing hard, enjoy the day and hope to play as well the next time out.
Stallions 99/00 clearly begged out of fit. Easy decision for them. High chance of several thousand points and move to top 5 maybe top 3 in the state or low chance of getting 10K points. I know what I would do.
4:18PM .....I think somebody above already did answer why. It sure wasn't because the team kept fruitlessly kicking the long ball upfield to the big forward who was double or triple teamed. And it certainly wasn't because the team has gotsoccer points or cares about getting more.
I think that is a simpleton's judgement of GS and what another team chooses to do. We assume the Stallions are trying to maximize points and that may not be their reason for staying 2nd flight and even if it is I say they are clever. What law of the soccer universe says a team has to play up if it is good enough? I think Den of Lions showed that the top flight isn't necessarily all it's cracked up to be anyway.
I don't know why Mt. Laurel (and not the Stallions) were put in the top flight.
But if disappointment over the idea that a team might petition a tournament to beg out of appropriate competition so as to maximize their GS points makes me a "simpleton" in your eyes, then you're not anyone I'd care to impress.
My football coach always taught me that in order to be the best you had to actually beat the best. If you threw GS points out the window isn't this what teams would be trying to do? If they truly thought they were one of the best wouldn't they be biting and clawing to try and get into that top division? I really hope people aren't just chasing points but actually trying to be the best.
"There is a number, but that number is really only 2!
In theory EB and Marlboro could move up in EDP AND win MAPS Challenge to take the #1 spot. Realitstically, EB will almost surely move up EDP league standings, but I expect Marlboro will drop. "
With their win over Haddonfield, Marlboro now sits atop the EDP League table and can clinch this championship with wins over Gottschee and TSF in their final two games. They have gone undefeated to this point through 6 league games.
Still think there's only 3 real contenders for the year end GS #1?
It seems more than a little unfair to accuse the Stallions of ducking the top flight of the Maps tourney without any proof at all. Did the tourney directors say as much? Did anyone query the Stallions? Maybe the invitation to Mt. laurel was innocuous as to the geographical fact that they are much closer to the fields for an 8:30am arrival on a Saturday morning, and too late r a Stallions or Pleasant valley hotel booking. Isn't peasant valley rated just as high in their own state as the stallions. Taking a look at the Stallions record over the last year it doesn't look like they've ducked away from any competition. And with an impressive 70% plus win percentage against great and good teams why would they. If a tourney director or stallions manager is out there please set the record straight.
I wholeheartedly agree that jumping to conclusions about any team's flighting at the MAPS Challenge is unfair. I have no relationship to either the Stallions nor the tournament director so I can't share any significant details as to why they're in the 2nd flight there (although I seriously doubt it has anything to do with proximity to Tuckahoe).
But having seen tournament flighting for years now, I think I've gotten pretty good at predicting who will be placed where and this one seems odd to me. The shame of it for me is that I don't recall the Stallions Boys being top flighted at any big tournament before (sorry, but the Parsippany Pride doesn't qualify) and I think their play over the past 6-8 months should have earned them that chance at the MAPS Challenge.
So for whatever the reason, I think it's too bad they will be playing in the 2nd flight.
Still think there are only 3 real contenders for the year end #1?
No. There are only 2 realistically. That's what I said and it is still true. Congrats to Marlboro, but they just replaced Princeton Black as it looks like Black drops about 5K behind the pace. Possible yes ...likely no. SJEB has dropped in EDP and out of the running too. EBSC and Marlboro will enter with a real chance and EBSC's odds look better between the two.
"No. There are only 2...EBSC and Marlboro will enter with a real chance and EBSC's odds look better between the two."
So only EBSC and Marlboro are in contention to catch Gottschee or are the only two with a shot at #1? Cause unless you've written Gottschee off with PB, then there would still be 3 in contention, right?
I'd agree that SJEB is gone now. But I also called them a longshot when I mentioned them a while back.
Good point. I call Gottschee the current #1 not the contender, but your point is accurate.
Why are we counting points or points/game when it changes a lot every week...see how Haddonfield dropped and Marlboro moved up after 1 game?
The truth is Marlboro's quest for #1 will hinge on one game at 9:35AM 11/16 against Pachuca. If they can win that then the rest seems possible. I'm a doubter myself. On the flip side, I still say EBSC at 6th in EDP is still going to win EDP. I don't see who will stop them from getting to the finals at MAPS Challenge either. Princeton and Europa could, but both have been lackluster lately so EBSC looks like a lock.
You don't see the value at looking at a teams compiled points and then seeing how many games/tournaments it took them to achieve the points? Of course it matters.
I like this outside the box thinking. Is the team that has 10,000 points after 10 games better or worse than the team that has 12,000 points after 50 games.
I am glad you said this. The world you live in is the never ending conversation / pursuit to be ranked #1.
Lets take Gottschee as an example since they are the current top ranked team. Got Soccer has them playing 66 games in the past 12 months. I don't think this number includes their current NYCSL fall schedule and all the scrimmages they have played. But I will take a guess and say the total is closer to 80 games.
This was suppose to be the old model of American soccer, that was all about playing and winning games but lacked the focus on developing players to play the right way.
The new model pushed by the U.S. Soccer Development Academy is highly focused on practice to game ratio.
The idea is to develop soccer players to play the right way not just win games and be ranked #1.
Yeah, probably cause your kid's team isn't ranked where you'd like to see them.
Let's set up a bunch of rules that everybody can clearly understand and then, when things don't work out the way we like, let's complain that the rules are flawed and we should change them after the fact.
So a professional team is 3 games ahead in first place but the 2nd place team has played 6 fewer games, does that mean that the second place team shouldn't have that in their argument?
No one is saying to change the system. Just recognize it for what it is. It rewards a team for the quantity of games it plays almost as much as the quality. U.S. Academy teams are playing around 30 games a year. We've gotten ourselves into a rut playing 50-75 because we have to keep up with the Jones'. Not sure that's the healthiest thing for our boys is it?
Maybe your team is, but don't speak for all. Academy teams play 30 games per year? You don't have a son playing for an academy team do you? If you did, you would realize how ridiculous a statement that is.
"So a professional team is 3 games ahead in first place but the 2nd place team has played 6 fewer games, does that mean that the second place team shouldn't have that in their argument?"
Hey! The word "professional" should never be used in a discussion about GotSoccer rankings!
The 2nd pace team doesn't have an "argument." They have a 2nd place standing. And if this bothers them that much then they have a very clear picture on how to change it (if they can).
But any idea of "changing the rules" to somehow re-rank teams is just dumb. If you don't like GS's system, that's fine. I can certainly understand why. But it is what it is and attempts to translate it to something you prefer to read are pointless.
Did anyone say anything about changing the rules to re-rank teams? I thought some folks were merely pointing out a different way of looking at the numbers. I find the GotSoccer point and rankings to be valuable, informative, laughable and absurd—all at the same time. But one thing is for sure…it's a fascinating system.
Using the close-minded logic of the post immediately above me, the rest of the country would not consider Gottschee to be in the same league as Marlboro. Marlboro is 11th and Gottschee has no "argument" at 23rd, right?
Pts/Game means nothing unless you are playing the same competition. Why would GS switch to that? The beauty of GS is that it relates different leagues/tourneys/competitors across the country into one ranking.
GS does have a measure close to Pts/Game. It is win % and Goals Ratio. It used to be Haddonfield was off the charts on this measure. They were playing lesser competition. Now with some EDP and top level history under their belts the numbers have come back to earth. A team that moves up levels of competition should eventually get to a 50% win % at the proper level of competition. They are still usually better than a lower level league team with a 75% win %. Note the Stallions 99/00. They would be ahead of Marlboro or most anyone on Pts/Game and have a very high win % of 71.7 and Goal Ratio of 2.69. That suggests they should move up in competition to play the Marlboros etc. To conclude they should be ranked ahead of Marlboro or Princeton Black or Gottschee etc. would be WRONG. When they stepped up in level against Parsippany and Beachside they lost both games. I suspect the same would happen to them as Haddonfield in time at EDP 1st or in top flights of tourneys.
Marlboro showed dominance over TSF today, but they weren't the only one. EBSC will soon be #1. Black Dawgs, Roma, Black...all really good too, but seriously....too inconsistent.
October 30, 2013 at 10:59 AM "I took a look at GS rankings last night and saw a whole new development there call "Tier." It's gone again today so it looks like a it's work in progress."
It looks like the "tier" feature is back this morning on the National rankings (although the NJ rankings appear to be down). Anyway, it looks like tiers are being assigned based on total National points within the following parameters:
Diamond: over 20,000 Premier Elite: 10,000-19,999 Premier: 5,000-9,999 Platinum: 1,000-4,999 Gold: 250-999 Silver: 100-249 Bronze: 50-99 Copper:1-49 N/A: 0
Not sure what this will be used for (if anything. But they seem to have been working on it for a at least a few weeks now so I'm assuming it will have some significance.
I've had a GS patch on my jersey for years now! Hasn't everyone?
The other EDP 1st Divisions are just about finished up. Pachuca looked to be cruising in the South Division until a draw and 2 losses in their final 3 matches (including a loss to Baltimore Celtic yesterday in what turned out to be a championship match) left them 2nd. So congrats to Baltimore Celtic on this championship!
In the North Division, FSA sits on top having finished their season with 17 points, just 1 ahead of NYSC. But if Gottschee Blue (NYE) can beat Yonkers and Beachside in their 2 remaining matches, they would push themselves to the top of this heap. So no congrats to anyone here just yet.
And here in NJ's Central Division, Marlboro has their fate in their own hands. A win for them over Gottschee Roma in their final league match would make them champs! But a loss or a draw would open the door for East Brunswick to win their last 2 and snag the prize away. Everyone else has already been eliminated.
Was there really any question who was going to win that match? I think the real winner is the Stallions club because with SJEB's loss it looks like Stallions will go one-two in EDP. Great results.
Unfortunately, the Gunners will drop to 10K points w/o a good showing this weekend and will drop out of the top 10. The 99/00 team will be sitting on the edge of top 1% in the nation and poised to gain more ground come spring.
...and by the way who said SJEB is falling fast...did that team lose a key player or two? Away from that they are also on the edge of top 1% and not dropping in ranking anytime soon. They could make a good run in the spring. A few teams are positioned well for spring especially EBSC (and Haddonfield if they played spring).
EBSC is sitting pretty right now. They will not only finish fall top 3 and maybe #1, but they also have a low hurdle to keep climbing in points and national standing all throughout the spring into next fall too!After they faced a difficult fall and a battle to just stay top 10, I think you have to say, hands down, "coach of the season" award goes to them. They will be an interesting team to join over winter break and may get stronger still.
I think EBSC are still odds on favorite to end #1 in the fall. They have an easier route to the finals this weekend at MAPS Challenge. Unlikely Black has the chops to beat them. That's huge points there and I also think they will win EDP. Granted Marlboro has it in their control to win EDP still, but their task is much harder. Marlboro have to play #1 Gottschee in their last game and Roma has everything to lose. The Roma season and future spring could turn disastrous in just that one game if they lose! If they have any sense, expect those kids to come out like rabid werewolves. A loss knocks them off from #1 and drops them closer to the basement in EDP and puts them in a bad spot for spring when a high hurdle (opposite of EBSC) could see them moving even further down the rankings. Not pretty. That game should be something to watch with 2 teams laying it on the line!
Don't be so quick to crown EBSC yet. Gottschee has a lot to play for on the upside too! If they can win MAPS Challenge then they pretty much leave the next closest team almost 10K points behind. That is sitting pretty!
ACADEMY UPDATE: Things are getting interesting at this age group.
MF drops out of top 10 at U14 replaced by World Class getting on the board for the first time.
The two powerhouses look to be NYRB (of course) and Gottschee who sits 2nd at both '99 and '00 age groups just behind NYRB. The Gottschee U14 academy team started off poorly after losing a lot of players to NYRB this season, but they have come roaring back in recent weeks to move into a 3 way tie on points for 2nd with NYSC who they just defeated head to head and only 1 goal behind MLS academy NE Revs on goal differential. This is especially interesting given that the two Gottschee feeder club teams at the same age group...both on track to be #1 in NJ and NY...fielded 5 '00 players called up to U14 national team training camp (2 from NJ and 3 from NY). That is on the club side not even from the academy teams. Talk about firepower just waiting in the wings!
...but you're right 2:33PM ...the only players left are the ones w/o any touch.
That is such a BS statement. Are there very good players on Academy teams, yes. Are there players that aren't that good on academy teams, yes. Academies have the advantage of new players trying out all the time, that is true. There are MANY very talented players, NOT on academy teams and will never will be.
If I've got this right, either Gottschee Roma, Marlboro or EBSC can clinch GotSoccer's year end #1 NJ ranking by winning the Maps Challenge, regardless or what shakes out in the EDP league.
Gottschee would end the year with over 27,000 points if they win the tournament (regardless of where the finish in EDP) and no one else can finish that high.
Even if Marlboro places 2nd in EDP, they would still end up with nearly 24,000 points should they win the tournament and no one could surpass them if they do.
But even if Marlboro hold on in EDP and EBSC finish 2nd in the league, EB would end up on top of the GS rankings with a win at the MAPS Challenge.
And here's one last (unlikely?) scenario to consider...with a league win over PDA and a league loss or draw by the Black Dawgs against Lehigh Valley, Princeton Black would probably finish no worse than 3rd in EDP and could then end up as GS's #1 with a win at the MAPS Challenge.
A few of the tournament teams also have EDP games scheduled for this weekend so I assume the league games will have to be made up at some other time. So if Gottschee, Marlboro or EBSC win this weekend it's over. But if Princeton Black were to win the tournament, we may need to wait a bit until we have a final answer on the GS #1.
This season has been pretty interesting with a shock State Cup winner and four other teams with each with shots at the #1 ranking as we come down the stretch!
"..and by the way who said SJEB is falling fast...did that team lose a key player or two? Away from that they are also on the edge of top 1% and not dropping in ranking anytime soon." SJEB just dropped this morning and will likely drop even further as their year ago points vaporize.
With their bracket in the top flight at the Bethesda tournament including VA's Arlington Eagles and MD's Olney Rangers (along with a team from IL), am I the only one thinking the Gunners may be in for some very tough turkey this Thanksgiving?
"SJEB just dropped this morning and will likely drop even further as their year ago points vaporize."
From what I can see, they'll drop only 620 more points between now and next May. A lot of teams have a lot more points that will "vaporize" before then.
Even if they drop to 4th place in the EDP 2nd Division (which could easily happen), they are guaranteed to have at least 11,000 points next May 1st no matter what.
So might they drop a few slots in the rankings by then if they're unable to add to their points total? Probably. But those 11,000 points are likely to keep them either in or very near the top 10 until then.
"Princeton Black is not your grandma's Upper Makefield. They are an all star mix half UM half MF00 plus the best striker at Philly Copaetc...you get the point. A Philadelphia area all star team. Every bit the NJ #1, National #5 they should be. Look out NJ. There is a new king of the hill on the field not just on paper. Beatable? Yes, but only if you can keep pace and very few teams can." July 6, 2013 at 6:09 PM
With six months past since Princeton Black crossed the Delaware into the NJ rankings, I took the quote above from the old board. The idea that this team would become a powerhouse against whom all the lesser NJ teams would be measured seemed reasonable at the time to me too.
But as of today, here are the fall net point totals (points earned vs. points expired) for NJ's top 25 (excluding the PDA Academy team).
11335 / DEN OF LIONS MUSTANGS 7745 / NJ STALLIONS ACADEMY 99/00 BOYS 7508 / BSM GOTTSCHEE ROMA '99 6808 / MARLBORO SA GALAXY BLUE 5510 / NJ STALLIONS ACADEMY GUNNERS 4354 / SOUTH JERSEY ELITE BARONS '99 3169 / MOUNT LAUREL UNITED MLU GLADIATORS 2459 / PARSIPPANY SC CREW 1533 / JERSEY SHORE BOCA JR FC JUNIORS 1294 / PDA JINKY 1197 / HADDONFIELD SC BLACK DAWGS 491 / VISTULA FC VISTULA DRAGONS 486 / PRINCETON FC TOTTENHAM (NJ) 419 / WESTFIELD SA FC PREMIER COSMOS 360 / NEW JERSEY FORCE ARSENAL 359 / IRONBOUND SC NAVIGATORS 122 / EAST BRUNSWICK UNITED FC -93 / MOUNT OLIVE PREMIER EVERTON -1100 / DEPTFORD SDS DEPTFORD DRAGONS -1181 / TSF ACADEMY -2665 / PRINCETON SA PREMIER 99/00 ORANGE -7691 / PDA ROONEY -9716 / PRINCETON FC BLACK
Interestingly, the #'s 1 and 2 in the state last August 1st are the last two on the list above!
While I like the reflection on how NJ stacked up against a PA newcomer isn't this list a little deceiving? A team can't control its point declines. That part is no reflection on how good the team is.
Their inability to maintain the point total (and rankings) they had when they arrived is telling. Everyone has points expire. Top teams find a way to replenish them.
Is it a case of them chasing too many points or just not being good enough? Seems like they should've walked to the State Cup final but didn't? Anyone who has seen them play probably knows the answer..
PDA Rooney no longer being no.1 has an easy explanation, not retaining State Cup and the loss of Academy players. What excuse does Princeton have? I thought this was a dream team? Isn't that why they moved from PA, to prove they were a powerhouse?
Is that right? The Stallions netted more points this fall than Marlboro or Gottschee? That's kind of impressive.
Isn't this all a little silly though? I mean the comments against Marlboro above. Of course they are a good team. We will play against them. I wish them luck. They are kids and a good team. It will be tough to win.
It looks like a lot of teams got big point bumps overnight. EBSC...Gunners boosted to over 20K points etc. Is this a database error on gotsoccer's part or is it a correct update?
TOP 10 GROSS POINT ADDS: 1 EBSC -----------14194 2 Marlboro--------12869 3 Den of Lions-----11187 4 Black Dawgs------9667 5 Stallions 99/00 ---7745 6 SJEB-------------7652 7 Stallions Gunners--7407 8 BSM Gottschee-----7390 9 Princeton Tottenham-6254 10 Mt Laurel----------5261
This is what teams won this fall and the picture is a bit different. EBSC is not down at the bottom. They are the winningest team of the fall just outpacing Marlboro. If they win this weekend maybe they could top 20K points earned in one season. That is probably some sort of record!
Gottschee doesn't look nearly as good and Haddonfield looks much better. PDA, SFL, and Princeton Black still don't make the top 10.
Had you noticed that EDP scores have been posted twice? Once as an EDP result and then again as a CJYSA LEAGUE FALL 2013?
Looks like GS has duplicated the EDP league results in a different and separate league called CJYSA LEAGUE FALL 2013.
The EDP 1st Central group has been cut in two for this alternate league with Marlboro,Ironbound, TSF and Lehigh Valley in one group and EBSC. Princeton Black, PDA, Gottschee and Haddonfield in the other.
The result is that, along with the 6610 points Marlboro has been awarded for being on top in EDP, they are now getting an additional 3985 points for being 1st in their CJYSA league. Similarly, EBSC has added 4475 points for being on top of the other CJYSA division.
Seems like it's got to be a mistake as they are crediting teams with points for two separate events based on the results of just one (the EDP league). So we'll just have to wait and see if these CJYSA points eventually go away or not.
But if they don't go away then the year end #1 team scenarios are very different than they looked yesterday.
I have to think that is bogus. How can every one game count twice? Play one season and get credited for two? NJ teams will quickly go to the top of national rankings because all the other teams around the country play one game and get credit for one game.
Tomorrow's showdowns....Princeton Black vs EBSC and Gottschee Roma vs Pachuca. Princeton Tottenham looks weak in 2nd division and NJ Stallions 99/00 look to be cruising.
"I have to think that is bogus. How can every one game count twice? Play one season and get credited for two? NJ teams will quickly go to the top of national rankings because all the other teams around the country play one game and get credit for one game."
Well, most of the country only uses Got Soccer for a fraction of their games anyway, so if the numbers are skewed a bit more, it's not that big a deal. The rankings system is most useful in comparing apples to apples, and for NJ it still works.
538 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 538 Newer› Newest»It's the same as Stallions 99/00-Gunners combined, but only higher ranked.
So if your team had possession of the ball 75% of the time, but still couldn't score, then you wouldn't say that your team was better than the other team for that game and is just too bad they couldn't score?
What would you say to that? lol
And what did Gottschee do to you that you hate them so much? your boy try out for the team and didn't make it?
So if your team had possession of the ball 75% of the time, but still couldn't score, then you wouldn't say that your team was better than the other team for that game?
What would you say to that? lol
And what did Gottschee do to you that you hate them so much? your boy try out for the team and didn't make it?
So if your team had possession of the ball 75% of the time, but still couldn't score, then you wouldn't say that your team was better than the other team for that game?
What would you say to that? lol
And what did Gottschee do to you that you hate them so much? your boy try out for the team and didn't make it?
lol no use arguing against a witless mind
I'm not entirely sure that the facts above about the Gunners are entirely correct. In fact I know for a fact that they recruit because they attempted to recruit my son just this past season. To my understanding there's at least half the kids or more from outside of Montclair as was told to me. We chose not to join due to the larger then normal drop off of players each season. How do you lose three, four, five or more players each season without adding new players. All teams go through this, of course it's not the same team season to season. But our question way more about why so we went a different direction. But either way it's not about one single aspect it's about a combination of coaching, clubs, players, development, etc. There's at least two dozen teams in Jersey that do a good job otf it.
LOL
So if your team had possession of the ball 75% of the time, but could not kick the ball into the net to score even with 10 shots on goal, what would you call that? Would you still say that your team was not better than the other team, and it just didn't happen to score? lol
are you sure that's a Gottschee parent you're taunting? come to think of it - what did Gottschee do to you? Did your boy try out for the team and didn't make it? is that why you hate Gottschee so much?
hey guys what's up with this? tried posting replies over the last couple of days and nothing came up!
are you restricting on postings?
is this blog still accepting comments? my postings still not appearing, even posted from two different pc's.
Does anyone know why got soccer would award points for EDP fall season, even though the season is not over yet?
lol
Rumors flying regarding a Parsippany raid of Stallions Gunner players to bring with them to the Super Y finals in Florida this December. I don't know what's tackier...Parsippany going to the Stallions or the Stallions club allowing it in light of the fact that their A team Stallions 99/00 are competing as winners of their division. I guess they see it as the possibility for an all Stallions final LOL. Geez, Youth Soccer...you can't make this stuff up.
Does anyone know why got soccer would post points now for the EDP season when the season is not over yet?
Does anyone know why got soccer would post points for the EDP season when the season is not over yet?
test
GotSoccer has now included points for fall EDP league play based on teams' current standings. While these awards will probably change over time for many, they have shaken up the State rankings already. The biggest change is for the Black Dawgs who have pushed up to #8 based on their 1st place EDP Central position.
And another interesting development is the field for the upcoming MAPS Challenge. There are now 7 teams currently ranked in the top 1% nationally on the Applied Team list. So the top flight in this one looks certain to have a 10,000 point value. Princeton Black, Marlboro, Gottschee Roma, SFL, SJEB, EB and Pachuca (who currently sit atop the EDP 1st Division South) are all on the list. Too bad this one will be played at Ft. Dix and not Tuckahoe.
HUGE changes in rankings today on gotsoccer!
It looks like Fall EDP and MAPS Elite are now included. The list looks a lot more like the season end predicted rankings from the report card above. Notable differences include the following...
SFL is still in the top 5, but they have not lost last year's sate cup points yet so this is temporary.
Gottschee Roma's 15min. of fame will soon come to a close. It looks like they have left the door open for one of two teams to become the top dog.
EBSC is out of the top 5, but this too is temporary. They finished the hard part of the season and will likely gain another 2-3K points out of EDP league play. EBSC are also favored tomorrow to at least get to the finals for another 3K or so points. IF EBSC wins state cup they can actually regain the #1 ranking in NJ and possibly hold it through season end.
Princeton Black could regain the #1 spot in NJ also with a state cup win OR 2 wins against the Black Dawgs in upcoming matches (state cup semis tomorrow and 11/10 EDP 1st match). Either way, the Black Dawgs stand smack in the way of Princeton regaining the #1 ranking in NJ! Should make for an exciting state cup semi-final match tomorrow!
All this seems to just be setting up the MAPS Challenge to decide it all by season end! This once 2nd tier tourney is shaping up to be bigger than EDP Cup...the biggest tourney of the fall! The applied teams list is now a powerhouse list and will bring maximum tourney points (10K). It will surely still be close at the top of NJ regardless of who is sitting #1 at the time of the Challenge. That means the best performer at the MAPS Challenge will probably be the one who finishes the season #1 in NJ.
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How come got soccer posted points for the EDP league even though the season is not over?
No problem on the Reply functionality. Just glad this blog is back in business.
The MAPS Challenge really does have the potential to decided who will spend the winter as NJ's #1. At least as of now.
It would be pretty cool if the season comes down to some head-to-head competition for the State's top ranking at the last tournament of the season.
gotsoccer reported some divisions last spring before season end. As teams changed places it created a lot of week to week movement in rankings.
Regarding GS and EDP league points, the points earned for last fall also expired when they added the new points for this season. So while this year's awards will change as the current standings do, this makes the rankings more current (and relevant) by relying on what's happened so far this year as opposed to how last year finished. Surely the Black Dawgs are a top 10 team at this point and this approach puts them there.
Looks like GS waits until about half of the season is played before doing this. This way these "temporary" awards are at least a reasonable reflection of how the standings will look by the end of the season.
It seems like a good idea to me.
October 23 11:03AM. ..
Are you still talking about last week's 0-0 game? Parents are so funny! You didn't have close to 10 shots all game let alone 10 on goal. Get reall! ...and yes if you had 10 SOG and missed them all something would probably be wrong!
We didn't try out for your team and I have nothing against them. Our team is about to win state cup. One thing we know for sure. It won't happen by bossing the other team 0-0.
....and correction to 11:10AM above. Princeton only needs to win today's semi-final match to move back to #1 in NJ!
"We didn't try out for your team and I have nothing against them. Our team is about to win state cup. One thing we know for sure. It won't happen by bossing the other team 0-0."
Well I guess you weren't the numerous Princeton Black parents who were saying how badly they were outplayed and were lucky to get a point out after last week's match with Gottschee.
So maybe you're the parent of the player who committed repeated (and at times violent) fouls?
And regarding GS's #1, don't be so sure that Gottschee won't be adding some league points before any State Cup awards are made. In other words, Gottschee will still be on top next week no matter what happens today.
But that's really all from me to you as you really are to dumb to keep chastising.
October 25, 2013 at 11:10 AM
"Either way, the Black Dawgs stand smack in the way of Princeton regaining the #1 ranking in NJ! Should make for an exciting state cup semi-final match tomorrow!"
October 26, 2013 at 8:13 AM
"....and correction to 11:10AM above. Princeton only needs to win today's semi-final match to move back to #1 in NJ!"
Okay, so reading comprehension isn't your strong suit either.
They're right about you ... reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.
"You didn't have close to 10 shots all game let alone 10 on goal. Get reall! ...and yes if you had 10 SOG and missed them all something would probably be wrong! "
I was asking about your team in that post, so you just confirmed that something would be wrong with your team.
"We didn't try out for your team and I have nothing against them. Our team is about to win state cup. One thing we know for sure. It won't happen by bossing the other team 0-0. "
No, you won't be bossing the other team. You would need your players to play dirty and violent to get anywhere close to 0-0.
For somebody who has nothing against another team, you sure talk a lot of trash against them!
Now, that's funny!
DEN OF LIONS 5 EBSC 4. DEN OF LIONS ADVANCES TO STATE CUP FINALS.
Not a great day for Gottschee.
But an even worse one for EB and Princeton Black (who have to be the dirtiest team I'm ever seen).
DoL and Black Dawgs in the State Cup final.
At least the Princeton Black dope will have to quiet down for a while.
Why not a great day for Gottschee? They're not in state cup?
No they're not. And the gifted PDA with their first EDP league win last night.
Any word on who won state cup?
DEN OF LIONS WIN STATE CUP!!!!!!!
What a cinderella story. #32 rank defeats all, but the #1 team in the state to take state cup. WOW.
Very unlikely outcome, but they hung in there to take the cup.
I saw the game between them and EBSC, and although EB had 90% possession and attack, DOL managed to hold them off to head into PKs.
EB just cpuldnt finish......shame on them.
Funny that the DOL parents were screaming in joy, they should focus more on having their coach teach them how to possess and pass.......not just do and run.
But hey.......to each his own.
Congratulations to DOL!
It's like the "Hoosiers" of youth soccer!
Is that you boss man talkin' about readin' comprehension?
What do you conclude from your 3-2 loss? What does scoreline say? I guess you were bossing the game there too!
You are what your record says you are.
Keep bragging and counting your points though.
"Our team is about to win state cup."
Please excuse me. I had no idea you were a DoL parent.
Hope the refs at the MAPS Challenge have their cards handy.
I heard a rumor of a name change to "Princeton Yellow?" If so, I'd say "Princeton Red" would be another appropriate option.
The DoL will be the ones counting their points. All the way to top 10 in NJ. Will they join EDP for spring? Can anyone in NJ beat them?
Someone above commented the top 12 teams in NJ offer great coaching. Really? Why did so many top ranked teams get bested by DoL? I think this calls into question the whole idea of "my kid plays in a higher ranked league/team therefore he is getting better development surrounded by better players and coaches." It's just not true. A higher ranked team just means more man children still playing jungle ball and that doesn't help your kid develop.
Let's break that stupid myth in NJ! Maybe then we will start to develop real players. I looked at the video on the other page. Not one top 10 ranked team plays like the 2nd half of the video. I've seen them all. The ONLY difference between the the top 10 ranked teams and other good MAPS teams is the size of the players. Princeton, Gottschee, Marlboro, EBSC, Haddonfield...you know it...which one doesn't have one or several players that you look at and just say "no way that kid is under 14." He probably is. My point is every one of the coaches has taken the easy route and collected the big kids. Otherwise they would just be coaching another MAPS team and not a top 10 EDP team. For all the parents crowing about their kids and good soccer, let's face it. Your team has probably never played quality soccer even when you won. NJ soccer is an advertisement for bad quality soccer. Maybe Redbull or Cedar Stars academy stand apart. Maybe some kudos should be given to Haddonfield and the old Millburn for embracing a simple kick and run style with good hustle. Maybe, but where are the coaches to teach teams to play like the 2nd half of the video? Wouldn't it be cool to step on the field on Saturday and watch your top 10 teams play like that? Why doesn't it exist in NJ?
My bad. I got that reversed. Wouldn't it be nice to see our teams play like the 1st half. Those kids look younger than U14 too. Gotsoccer ranking. What ajoke.
Are you kidding me?
DOL plays quality soccer?
They did not string more than two passes against EBSC. As matter of fact, EBSC goalie gave them that goal as a gift by making a mistake. Other that, you had one........count it....ONE shot on goal!
Have DOL play any of the top 10 NJ teams again, and they lose 8 out of 10 times. I hope DOL do join EDP.........we'll be seeing them at the bottom of the bracket very quickly.
Sit there oblivious with your points, because you're not getting any more any time soon.
"Princeton only needs to win today's semi-final match to move back to #1 in NJ!...Our team is about to win state cup...Keep bragging and counting your points though."
Just some advice on "bragging and counting points"...
Try to wait until the team you support actually earns the points before you start bragging about them. This way you don't look like such a fool when you're wrong.
I suppose no youth soccer blog is complete without an idiot. So thanks for taking the job.
So EBSC parent...because your goalie made a mistake that goal didn't count? I suppose the Marlboro goalie missed one too. And the Black Dawgs goalie? You have to be the one kidding.
It wasn't just one lucky game. We played and won against 3 of the top 5 teams in the state to get the cup. How do you explain that? I KNOW we didn't play the best quality soccer. That is the difference between us. Go cry with that GOTscheeSOCCER boss guy. I'll bet he will explain away his loss to PDA on goalie errors too!
"I KNOW we didn't play the best quality soccer."
And it sounds like you're pretty proud of it, eh?
Congrats to DoL on a great result in the State Cup tournament!
And no excuses on the PDA game. No vicious play from Rooney. No egregious refereeing errors. The game looked like it would be 5-0 Gottschee after about 10 minutes but then a gift of a goal to PDA evened it out a bit. And then, after reclaiming the lead, Gottschee's inability to pad it by repeatedly failing to finish one-on-one against PDA's keeper (who had a very good game) kept Rooney in it. By the end Rooney looked like the team that wanted it more and the result reflects thsy. So congrats to them too on their first EDP win.
oh no...it counted!
But my point is don't be so proud on how you got the results. Your opponents are beating themselves....not that you are actually beating them.
Seeing it any other way is just kidding yourself.
You admitted that DOL does not play quality soccer (biggest understatement), so for the good of your players, have your coach teach them how tto play the game properly.
None of that kick and run crap that was played this weekend.
As I said...congrats to DOL......
But don't expect them to get that lucky again any time soon.
And please apply for EDP....would love to see you in our level of play!
How the heck did DOL go on that winning streak? They beat the best teams in the State from the 32nd ranked position? This is the same tam that plays in MAPS and lost to Manalapan? How????
Luck! that's how.....
This is not a trend that will continue based on their level of play and kick and run style. If their team had a good style and talented players, i would definitely agree that they are a team to look out for.
As the saying goes....even a broken clock is correct twice a day!
Nice clock analogy. Does a clock tell time correctly three times a day? because we beat top 5 teams 3 times.
Why shouldn't I be proud? We won state cup. I never said we don't play quality soccer. I said "best". Always room for improvement, but let's be clear EBSC parent. We beat you so our quality was better than yours on Saturday.
Den of lions please don't kid yourselves. You lose to teams like mt olive and Middletown. Congrats on your bad news bear State cup run and I would make you sure you keep hold of this moment very right and close to your body because you will never experienced such a high achievement within youth soccer again.
Your team stinks to watch. Your team made millburns kick and run like an arsenal possession play. You are a disgrace to the game of soccer and you should be ashamed.
Den of Lions way back was known as quality soccer and really top level teams. You had your streak, you had your moment. Too bad if you played those same teams 10 times, they would beat you 9. You would never last in the edp first or second division. You would be a 2-9 soccer team.
Enjoy- your team was embarrassing to watch. The only ppl who would ever clapping for wining your title would be parents of players, all other spectators watched your 3 games and walked away shaking their heads with being completely confused as how does a coach and parent allow such garbage on the field. You belong in Morris county league with all the other kids who don't know anything about the game.
Hey EB guy,
Neutral party here just letting you know that you're making yourself look bad here.
DoL won the State Cup and the DoL gloater deserves his fun.
I thought EB played much better looking soccer on Saturday myself. But that doesn't really matter as the tournament rewards the team that wins the match.
I don't doubt EB would beat DoL 10 straight times going forward if they were to play the games. But they didn't beat them on Saturday so it would be cool if you'd chill with the sour grapes.
Why is it assumed that it is an EBSC parent posting these negative comments? Princeton and Hoddonfield parents were there as well. I am pretty sure even Marlboro parents were present to watch (given it was in their own backyard).
I am an EBSC parent and I congratulate DOL for their win.....no matter how it was achieved. The fact that EBSC could not put balls in the net should not diminish DOL's win.
DOL are state champs....and that's all there's to it.
EXACTLY! They won fair and square. Now they will move into the top 10 and will knock Ironbound off. Congrats!
Anyone watch SJEB play lately? ...#3?
DEN OF LIONS should move to #7! Not too bad, but then again making a run through the old state cup champ Titans then top 5 Marlboro then top 5 EBSC then top performing fall team Haddonfield is very impressive! Now that state cup is finished and the one or two teams that often come out of nowhere are included (Den of Lions and Black Dawgs this season) the updated season end rankings estimates are as follows.
YEAR END NJ RANKINGS: (excludes MAPS Challenge)
1_Gottschee Roma_____________________21,446
2_Princeton Black _____________________18,618
3_EBSC United_________________________16,764
4_Haddonfield Black Dawgs______________16,063
5_Marlboro Galaxy____________________14,638
6_SJEB___________________________________14,241
7_Den of Lions__________________________12,030
8_Ironbound Navigators________________11,322
9_NJ Stallions 99/00____________________10,662
10_TSF Academy_______________________9,799
11_NJ Stallions Gunners__________________8,461
12_Parsippany Crew _____________________8,329
13_SFL Titans_________________________8,326
14_PDA Rooney________________________8,252
15_Westfield Cosmos__________________7,675
Why is Princeton dirty? Somebody above mentioned Black plays dirty. At least I think that was the comment. Why would they say that?
Hmmm. Could it be that my posts are not being published?
"Hmmm. Could it be that my posts are not being published?"
Okay, obviously not.
Regarding Princeton Black, maybe the fact that they received 8 yellows and a red card in just two recent games (while their opponents received no discipline) might have some concerned about foul play. And I can assure you they deserved at least one other red.
Just saw the post from October 25, 2013 at 6:17 AM regarding poaching from Parsipanny to take Stallions players to Florida. I think that is pathetic of the Stallions knowing their other team is there competing already. So let's get this straight the Stallions 99/00 earn their way while others pay their way? What messages are we sending to our kids?
PAY TO PLAY. Isn't that the foundation USA Soccer?
Any word on flighting for the MAPS Challenge yet? It looks like the top flight value will be 10K points and the 2nd flight worth at least 6K points as well. Princeton Black and BSM Gottschee will be the top seeds, but the early favorite will have to be Pachuca from MD. They have rolled through the best of the Northeast this fall. The NJ teams have been less consistent and it is a questionable whether ANY NJ team can deal with them. Pachuca's last butt whooping came at the hands (or feet) of Gottschee so maybe there is hope. That would make for an exciting final! The Stallions 99/00 look to be on the cusp of the top flight to me. It would be cool to see them step up in level of competition. They deserve it.
You can apply to get in so what is wrong with that? If it was truly earned then applications wouldn't be accepted.
"You can apply to get in so what is wrong with that? If it was truly earned then applications wouldn't be accepted"
I'm definitely not following this one. Apply to get in to what? And what the second sentence makes even less sense to me.
I took a look at GS rankings last night and saw a whole new development there call "Tier." It's gone again today so it looks like a it's work in progress.
There looked to be tier levels assigned to each team (next to the points column) based on thei point totals/rankings. Top ranked teams had been placed in the "Diamond" tier and there were also Platinum, Gold, Silver, Premium and N/A (that I saw anyway). Tier rankings didn't appear to be consistent across National, Regional and State rankings for all teams though. Highly ranked NJ teams like the current state top 7 were listed as "Diamond" tier in the State, Regional and National rankings. But teams ranked below them (ex: Ironbound, SFL) were Diamond on a state level but Premium in the National rankings (I only saw Diamond and Premium tiers in the national rankings).
I couldn't find any explanation of the criteria for the tiers assignments so I guess that will show up eventually, assuming they carry through with this idea.
This development, along with their recent addition of bonus points for all wins (30 points) and draws (10 points) in GS events, leads me to believe they have a number of changes in the works. So good for them for making an effort to improve their process.
Regarding the projected state #1 at the end of the season, I think there are still a number of teams that could claim this prize.
If Gottschee can win the MAPS Challenge they can assure themselves the #1 ranking for the winter.
If Black can win the EDP League and the MAPS Challenge they can be certain to be #1 at the end.
Both Marlboro and EB could combine a move up in the EDP League standings with a win at the MAPS Challenge to claim to top spot.
I think there's even a scenario that would allow SJEB to do it (although that seems unlikely).
But hey, the Den of Lions are the State Cup champs so who's to say anything can't happen!
This is going to be an intense tournament and Pachuca's presence is another very interesting aspect.
"The Stallions 99/00 look to be on the cusp of the top flight to me."
I'd agree (assuming it's an 8 team top fight). And they probably should be included (with SFL dropped to the 2nd flight).
But I wonder if the Tournament Director may want to add a bit more of an out of state flavor to this group. NJ's Gottschee, Black, Marlboro, EB, and SJEB have to be shoe-ins, right? So might they include Pleasant Valley (along with Pachuca and Europa) instead of the Stallions?
There is a number, but that number is really only 2!
In theory EB and Marlboro could move up in EDP AND win MAPS Challenge to take the #1 spot. Realitstically, EB will almost surely move up EDP league standings, but I expect Marlboro will drop. They have no easy games in their final 4 including match-ups with Haddonfield (#3) and Gottschee (#1). I expect they walk away with only 4 more points on the season.
SJEB is so unrealistic they can win MAPS Challenge and they still fall short. They would ALSO need help from the current #1 to fall even lower than 7th place in EDP currently AND get no points at MAPS Challenge. Realistically, only 2 teams have shots at taking the #1 ranking at MAPS Challenge...EBSC and Princeton Black.
New UCALLIT!
You make the call. What do you think?
"They would ALSO need help from the current #1 to fall even lower than 7th place in EDP currently AND get no points at MAPS Challenge."
I think this may be wrong. Should SJEB beat an out-of-state team in the MAPS Challenge final and Gottschee fail to place there or move up in the EDP League standings, I think this could put SJEB over the top. So while I've already said it's unlikely, I don't think we can say it's impossible.
And I think you missed the spirit of my post. My underlying point was the new State Cup Champs have taught us that sometimes things we don't think can happen come to pass.
It's close...that's true...I never said definite...They CAN win and still fall short.
"This development, along with their recent addition of bonus points for all wins (30 points) and draws (10 points) in GS events, leads me to believe they have a number of changes in the works. So good for them for making an effort to improve their process."
By improving their process you mean feeding the monster that is GS right? By now including points for wins and ties it's now forcing leagues to want to sign up to be a GS sponsored league as well. If you win a game outside of GS I don't believe you get the 30 pts right? $$$$$$$$$$$$$
The fact that a #32 seed won State Cup means, to me at least, that there is some intense scouting going on.
How about more emphasis on soccer excellence and let winning being the byproduct?
http://resources.ussoccer.com/n7v8b8j3/cds/downloads/Part%201%20-%20Style%20and%20Principles%20of%20Play%20U.S.%20Soccer%20Coaching%20Curriculum.pdf
I, for one, am tired of "relative success" in the world's most popular sport. Let's develop young men who can succeed because of their soccer experience in NJ, not despite it.
Very interesting blog, but let's keep it real. When your typical study abroad 14 year old boy couldn't jump on one of these teams and be a star then let's talk.
"When your typical study abroad 14 year old boy couldn't jump on one of these teams and be a star then let's talk."
Okay, I'll be the first to admit that I have no idea as to what a "typical study abroad 14 year old boy" is like. I don't think I've ever met one.
So do they all play football? And are they all good at it? Please, shed some more light for me while you're "keeping it real."
"By improving their process you mean feeding the monster that is GS right?"
I suppose that's a fair way to look at them. They sure do look to be monopolizing soccer event software in some parts of the country all right.
But I think one could also have some appreciation for a company that keeps working to improve their services and grow their business.
Gotsoccer is a success! If you parents didn't demand it then they would not succeed. Put them down if you will, but you keep them in business and that won't change anytime soon. I just wish they had a way to compare academy teams to top EDP club teams. Most would say, "Oh Academy much better than EDP!" Really? Not always. Look how NYSC kids are doing in USSF DA U13/U14 this fall. How do you think Cedar Stars will do next fall at academy level? I bet they win even over NYRB which is undefeated at '00 age group, but I would argue look weak compared to other years. It's not always so clear.
"typical study abroad 14yr old..."\
I don't get it either. Please clarify. What are you trying to say?
There are American kids in our '00 age group playing FC Barcelona Academy and at other Champions League team academies. Not many, but they exist.
USSF DA guidelines are a good start or really outline. The start should be a distinct playing philosophy that the coach conveys and really pursues in training. Sounds simple, but 99% of top NJ teams would fail being able to say YES to that.
So there are a handful of 14 year olds who are talented enough to have earned spots at some of the best youth academies in the world.
"When your typical study abroad 14 year old boy couldn't jump on one of these teams and be a star then let's talk."
And we're supposed to be overwhelmed by the revelation that these extremely rare players could be a "star" on any NJ club team?
Shocking!
Another new "merger" has been announced with World Class and Manhattan SC getting together.
"The plan includes the joint development of US Soccer Development Academy and Elite Club National League teams. In addition, the two programs are working on development plans for the construction of new playing fields in the metropolitan area."
Oh Academy much better than EDP!" Really? Not always.
With the exception of one or two teams you mentioned, the DA, overall, has a much higher level of player and teams compared to EDP.
Talk about trying to stir the pot.
World Class is already USSF DA. Why do they need to merge w/ Manhattan SC? What do they get out of it?
Stirring the pot? Not really.
There are a couple teams in a couple age groups that compete with the best DA teams. We've seen that now. I think that likely means there are a few more that compete with the mid-tier and lower DA teams. Given that the age categories are different it is difficult to rank. A U13 DA team can and probably does have older kids, but if you added some earlier '00s from #1 U14 club Gottschee to the late '00/01s on #1 U13 club Cedar Stars you would have a DA age equivalent team of calendar year '00s. This isn't a silly hypothetical as both play and practice near each other. That team would surely crush any current '00 DA team including the undefeated NYRB and that team would also have more national team call-ups than any other DA team.
Well maybe I was being inflammatory without being clear, but I still think it is a valid point. For example, if you were to host a typical 14 year old Dutch exchange student in your house that is male (not female) I am willing to bet that he would drop into any of these lineups and do excellent.
Yes, there is an American or two at La Masia, but certainly they are not from NJ and never will be with the descriptions of the kind of soccer we play here at the top level. The enlightened environments that these American prodigies come from sound so removed from here... playing out of the back... I do not think I have seen the word "possession" once on this thread.
So let's keep it real. It is all provincial success we are talking about here but the context of a global sport looms.
Please let's hear about a NJ team/coach/player doing well outside of NJ. If there is none then please start to question why this is. I think that is relevant to the topic at hand.
"World Class is already USSF DA. Why do they need to merge w/ Manhattan SC? What do they get out of it?"
Just a guess on my part, but I suspect the mention of new field development plans has a lot to do with it. And the potential to attract players for whom Orangeburg is too far north might be attractive to WC as well.
As the USSF DA, I'm guessing that WC is driving the bus on this one, but I'm not close enough to either club to know that.
"...if you were to host a typical 14 year old Dutch exchange student in your house that is male (not female) I am willing to bet that he would drop into any of these lineups and do excellent."
I think you'd have been right aout this as recently as a decade ago, but not any longer. The best Dutch 14 year olds are better than their counterparts from NJ for sure. But the "typical" Dutch 14 year old is not.
And I can think of 5 pretty well know current professional players who spent a significant part of their youth development in NJ:
Juan Agudelo
Jozy Altidore
Michael Bradley
Tim Howard
Giuseppe Rossi
Finally, there's been discussion of possession in this thread. And there's been disdain expressed about direct (kick n run) styles of play.
I'll agree that we should keep it real though!
Juan Agudelo
Jozy Altidore
Michael Bradley
Tim Howard
Giuseppe Rossi
I am with you that I get a particular jolt of pride when I hear the NJ accent of most of the above players interviewed after an important international match.
However, I'd venture to say that most of the above succeeded despite being from NJ rather than because of it. Maybe Tim Howard is great because he is from Jersey... I'll give you that. Maybe our string of serious homegrown success starts with goalies and expands from there, but it's kind of hard to imagine from what I've seen and heard.
From what I have heard here none of the top teams are playing possession like it is described by Claudia Reyna in the US Soccer Curriculum of 2012 as the Style of Play. Also of note, the program that delivered youth boys abroad to Barcelona's La Masia is built on possession... so it is possible to have individual success from a possession team.
Where are the youth Boys clubs/teams in NJ that play possession? How high up the international soccer ladder have their best players gone? That's what I want to hear about. That's what is most interesting to me... along with EDP results too...
Let's not pretend there isn't a larger picture or even several larger pictures to this sport our kids love so much. It cheapens their experience.
"From what I have heard here none of the top teams are playing possession like it is described by Claudia Reyna in the US Soccer Curriculum of 2012 as the Style of Play."
From what you've heard? I try to reserve comments on things I haven't seen myself.
BTW, you must know that Claudio Reyna is from NJ.
"Let's not pretend there isn't a larger picture or even several larger pictures to this sport our kids love so much."
A larger picture than NJ U14 Boys soccer? Nah, no one who posts here has any awareness of that. Good thing you've dropped by to "keep it real" for us though! What a useful contribution!
Actually I did not know that Claudio Reyna is from NJ and that is great that such an enlightened coach comes from here, but where are the NJ coaches following his plan? It's been available for 2 years.
What I have seen in NJ soccer at all levels is what is described as "No development" in the second half of this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx-BxNrP5TI&feature=youtu.be
This video was put out by the club that exported a 14 year old boy to Barcelona's La Masia.
What I'm wondering about in NJ is soccer like the first half of the video. What they are calling "Development". Look at the video. What does your team most resemble; the first 2 minutes or the second 2 minutes?
I do not have to see every team's games to catch wind of the fact that we are scouting and possibly recruiting from our neighbor's teams for the end product of trophy chasing.
Again look at possession soccer... I do not think it is to far off topic to wonder if it can be done by NJ U14 boys and how they can go when exposed.
There are a couple teams in a couple age groups that compete with the best DA teams. We've seen that now. I think that likely means there are a few more that compete with the mid-tier and lower DA teams.
Been on both sides of both a top 5 EDP Team and a DA Team. I can honestly say this is not the case. Perhaps at the 01 and 00 levels a few could compete but at the 99 level and above absolutely not the case. I have seen a few friendlies between mid tier DA and top EDP teams and it's not pretty soccer.DA teams much more quality as a group not to mention bigger, stronger and faster.
I agree at the '99 level. I too have seen both. The '99s are really good from PDA, Matchfit, NYRB, to Gottschee...the '00 class at DA now doesn't appear as imposing. How much do you think it is due to physical...bigger, stronger...and how much to quality of play? I think it's interesting a bunch of the national team call-ups are coming from clubs in '00 age and they were almost solely DA's in '99. Maybe that says something.
There is an exception at the '99 level. NYSC. They just joined DA from club level and are hugging #2 at USSF DA U13/U14 ahead of all, but NYRB.
That is an impressive list of names for NJ. I wonder how it compares to other states like CA (population adjusted). I bet it will be a bigger list for the coming generation which is great, but think how pitifully small it is coming form a NJ population of just under 9 million compared to what Catalonia produces with about 7.5million. Okay, not exactly a fair comparison, but it does show what is possible.
I think the ability to develop high level professional players in NJ (or anywhere else in this country) is still hampered by our country's overall athletic culture. Specifically, the path to professional development in US sport almost invariably leads a player through collegiate competition first.
But from a football perspective, the rest of the world just doesn't work this way. I can recall reading an article in the NY Times a few years ago where the head of youth development for the FA in England was saying that the US was starting to get it right, up until the U17 age. But that college was not the proper next step for player development at that point.
I think the top cubs in NJ (and elsewhere in the US) are doing a decent job of developing collegiate players. And given the culture here, that's exactly what they should be doing.
Ironbound defeats TSF 2-1. Impressive win for them. With a win tomorrow they can move out of last place in EDP and be replaced by BSM Gottschee in last place.
I think the gap between the top 10 teams is basically nothing in NJ.
The top clubs are doing a good job of developing collegiate players? ....11:41PM
That is the same as developing high school players while ignoring there is a much better level of quality out there in DA. Even D1 is just the next level of sub-par players at the world class level. Is that really our barometer of success?
If you want to become a lawyer or a doctor then get there with the grades and studying. Please don't me my doctor or lawyer that got to that place through playing soccer. That is even more scary than the idea of settling for 2nd class quality soccer in the USA. How about NJ develop the best quality teams first and then the best quality pro players 2nd?
"If you want to become a lawyer or a doctor then get there with the grades and studying. Please don't me my doctor or lawyer that got to that place through playing soccer. That is even more scary than the idea of settling for 2nd class quality soccer in the USA. How about NJ develop the best quality teams first and then the best quality pro players 2nd?"
Sorry, but you've become very tiresome for me. Perhaps you could go berate the Europeans for the lousy baseball payers they produce. Have you seen the Dutch team? They typical 14 year old little leaguer here would be a star over there!
"With a win tomorrow they can move out of last place in EDP and be replaced by BSM Gottschee in last place."
I don't think this is correct. Probably just a mistake though as opposed to intended.
The MAPS Challenge brackets have been posted and I'm surprised to see SFL included in the top flight along with the 7 teams I expected to see there. So it's Gottschee, Marlboro, Pachuca and SJEB in one group and EB, Europa, PB and SFL in the other.
My guess would be a Stallions Boys/Pleasant Valley final in the 2nd group.
34 U14 teams in all in 5 different flights. So the age group remains a very active one.
October 25, 2013 at 9:38 AM
"Too bad this one will be played at Ft. Dix and not Tuckahoe."
But the really exciting MAPS Challenge development is that they appear to have moved the tournament from Ft. Dix to Tuckahoe instead!
Is this the teams DOL beat to win State Cup?
Millburn, Marlboro, East Brunswick, Haddonfield? If they didn't connect one pass all month that is still pretty impressive. Congrats to them.
"I think the gap between the top 10 teams is basically nothing in NJ."
Let's just say there was a pretty big gap between #1 and #10 today...like a 10 goal difference!
Of course they connected passes. Just look at the list they beat! That would mean all those top teams are even worse!
So that means Gottschee won by 10 goals over Ironbound? What was the score? Is that a typo?
Gottschee 10 - 0 Ironbound
Wow@
MAPS Challenge...
SFL is in the 2nd flight and I would guess they will replace Pleasant Valley in the finals. Make it SFL/Stallions 99/00.
Looks to me like EBSC now has the easiest road to the finals in the top flight.
November 3, 3:42pm poster....are you serious?
Gauging the quality of teams that "you beat" by kicking and dumping the ball does not make you a better team. Those teams beat themselves........you got lucky.....and NO....you did not string more than two passes.
Keep living in your fantasy world....and be proud of the crap you call soccer.
TSF loses to Ironbound then defeats Princeton Black this weekend?
Does anybody know if EBSC and TSF played last Sunday? Still no score for this one on the EDP site.
"SFL is in the 2nd flight..."
Looks like SFL begged out of the top flight? They were included when the brackets were originally posted.
I suppose that's not a big surprise. But the team selected to replace is to me. Mount Laurel?
I actually like Mt. Laurel but am surprised that either the Stallions or Pleasant Valley weren't selected to move up instead.
Anyway, I'll still take a Pleasant Valley/Stallions final in the 2nd fight.
Assuming the Gunners will take care of business against a pointless NJSA team in their final league match, next week's showdown with their Stallions club mates looks like the 2nd Central Division final!
Should be a great grudge match!
November 3 8:44PM. Yep. Can't argue with you. 4 top ranked teams in a row beat themselves and we won. I will retreat to my fantasy world, but I am bringing my shiny new cup with me! Too bad you don't have one in your real world.
So is DoL playing in MAPS? would think that now that they have shown how they can beat top teams that they are ready to play with the big boys. Or will they be a one-cup wonder?
BSM GOTTSCHEE ROMA '99 10 IRONBOUND SC NAVIGATORS 0
If so, this is embarrassing to both teams.
"If so, this is embarrassing to both teams."
How so? Are you suggesting teams should just pass the ball or aim wide of the goal once the score reaches 7-0?
Personally, I think I'd find chasing the other team around while being toyed with more frustrating than continuing to play and fishing the ball out of my goal repeatedly.
This "mercy" approach may be appropriate at younger ages. But I think the boys are old enough now to deal with the real world.
From my experience, people from other parts of the world find the American "mercy" approach to be as dumb as it gets.
Switch players around, play a man down, try different combinations. Pretty simple to do.
If you can lose a match by 10 goals then I think you are misflighted. It should never happen, never. IB must have some serious quitters on their team.
"Switch players around, play a man down, try different combinations. Pretty simple to do."
Gottschee used about 18 players yesterday with all of them getting big chunks of time on the field. And playing a man down when trying to protect a clean sheet seems a bit generous to me.
Ironbound had beaten TSF the day before and also had a draw in 4 previous league matches before yesterday. I'm not saying they weren't mis-flighted in the EDP 1st Division, but the result was a surprise to just about everyone.
The score had plenty to do with Ironbound hanging their heads at some point, but Gottschee's play was the real story.
We fault teams when they don't play well. But then we also fault them when the pay spectacularly?
Ironbound's character is really the question.
Character in question? Embarrassing? Why?
Ironbound has gone through changes this season and has played competitively much of the time. Every team goes through transitions. These are kids. I'm pretty sure they aren't embarrassed and couldn't care less today. I hope so because next year the shoe may be on the other foot even at some other team. It's just not that important.
It does beg a question. There are no mercy rules at this age. Should teams change how they play when they get as far ahead as 5 goals or even 10 to show mercy? Switch players around...sure that seems like an easy change, but take players out...stop scoring? Is that the answer? What should a team do?
Gottschee made a lot of changes as the game progressed yesterday keeping many of their "first 11" on the bench for extended periods and having those on the field play positions they usually don't.
In the end, it made little difference who played where for them as they all played well everywhere. The 10 goals were scored by 8 different players and a number of others made essential contributions to the various build ups. Defensively, they rarely allowed Ironbound across midfield but dealt with them quickly and effectively on all but one of the rare occasions this happened. There was one early Gottschee error that provided Ironbound with a decent chance. It was the only one they got all day.
"What should a team do?"
You mean when the game has already been "won" yet there's still time on the clock?
This same Gottschee team trailed Haddonfield by 4 goals with about 10 minutes to go earlier this season when the Black Dawgs decided to "switch things up." By the time Gottschee had scored 3 goals and cut the lead to just 1, I can assure you that Haddonfield wished they hadn't taken their foot of the gas.
So what should a team do? I say keep playing hard, enjoy the day and hope to play as well the next time out.
With 2 wins in their last 10 games, can anyone explain how Mt/ Laurel has been included in the top flight at the Maps tourny?
I'm just wondering if this was the tournament's decision or if more deserving teams begged out of it?
Stallions 99/00 clearly begged out of fit. Easy decision for them. High chance of several thousand points and move to top 5 maybe top 3 in the state or low chance of getting 10K points. I know what I would do.
"Stallions 99/00 clearly begged out of fit."
I'm not sure that's a fair conclusion. But I understand the suspicion.
I appreciate SFL's obvious decisions to downgrade their competition this fall as their team has changed significantly and it makes sense.
But if teams are asking for less competitive flights so as to enhance their points potential then GotSoccer is having a very bad effect.
I'd prefer to see the Stallions in the top flight because they're the logical choice and are likely to provide the best competition.
A new U CALL IT is available. Do coaches play small sided games too much?
Nov 4 9:37AM....Don't just tell me you won 10-0. Show me why you won the game 10-0!
"But if teams are asking for less competitive flights so as to enhance their points potential then GotSoccer is having a very bad effect."
By you uttering this sheer blasphemy your team probably just lost 200 points.
4:18PM .....I think somebody above already did answer why. It sure wasn't because the team kept fruitlessly kicking the long ball upfield to the big forward who was double or triple teamed. And it certainly wasn't because the team has gotsoccer points or cares about getting more.
"Gotsoccer is having a very bad effect"
I think that is a simpleton's judgement of GS and what another team chooses to do. We assume the Stallions are trying to maximize points and that may not be their reason for staying 2nd flight and even if it is I say they are clever. What law of the soccer universe says a team has to play up if it is good enough? I think Den of Lions showed that the top flight isn't necessarily all it's cracked up to be anyway.
"I think that is a simpleton's judgement..."
I don't know why Mt. Laurel (and not the Stallions) were put in the top flight.
But if disappointment over the idea that a team might petition a tournament to beg out of appropriate competition so as to maximize their GS points makes me
a "simpleton" in your eyes, then you're not anyone I'd care to impress.
My football coach always taught me that in order to be the best you had to actually beat the best. If you threw GS points out the window isn't this what teams would be trying to do? If they truly thought they were one of the best wouldn't they be biting and clawing to try and get into that top division? I really hope people aren't just chasing points but actually trying to be the best.
"There is a number, but that number is really only 2!
In theory EB and Marlboro could move up in EDP AND win MAPS Challenge to take the #1 spot. Realitstically, EB will almost surely move up EDP league standings, but I expect Marlboro will drop. "
With their win over Haddonfield, Marlboro now sits atop the EDP League table and can clinch this championship with wins over Gottschee and TSF in their final two games. They have gone undefeated to this point through 6 league games.
Still think there's only 3 real contenders for the year end GS #1?
It seems more than a little unfair to accuse the Stallions of ducking the top flight of the Maps tourney without any proof at all. Did the tourney directors say as much? Did anyone query the Stallions? Maybe the invitation to Mt. laurel was innocuous as to the geographical fact that they are much closer to the fields for an 8:30am arrival on a Saturday morning, and too late r a Stallions or Pleasant valley hotel booking. Isn't peasant valley rated just as high in their own state as the stallions. Taking a look at the Stallions record over the last year it doesn't look like they've ducked away from any competition. And with an impressive 70% plus win percentage against great and good teams why would they. If a tourney director or stallions manager is out there please set the record straight.
I wholeheartedly agree that jumping to conclusions about any team's flighting at the MAPS Challenge is unfair. I have no relationship to either the Stallions nor the tournament director so I can't share any significant details as to why they're in the 2nd flight there (although I seriously doubt it has anything to do with proximity to Tuckahoe).
But having seen tournament flighting for years now, I think I've gotten pretty good at predicting who will be placed where and this one seems odd to me. The shame of it for me is that I don't recall the Stallions Boys being top flighted at any big tournament before (sorry, but the Parsippany Pride doesn't qualify) and I think their play over the past 6-8 months should have earned them that chance at the MAPS Challenge.
So for whatever the reason, I think it's too bad they will be playing in the 2nd flight.
Still think there are only 3 real contenders for the year end #1?
No. There are only 2 realistically. That's what I said and it is still true. Congrats to Marlboro, but they just replaced Princeton Black as it looks like Black drops about 5K behind the pace. Possible yes ...likely no. SJEB has dropped in EDP and out of the running too. EBSC and Marlboro will enter with a real chance and EBSC's odds look better between the two.
"No. There are only 2...EBSC and Marlboro will enter with a real chance and EBSC's odds look better between the two."
So only EBSC and Marlboro are in contention to catch Gottschee or are the only two with a shot at #1? Cause unless you've written Gottschee off with PB, then there would still be 3 in contention, right?
I'd agree that SJEB is gone now. But I also called them a longshot when I mentioned them a while back.
Well, it appears the Stallion boys have traded places with TSF and are now in the top group at the Bethesda Thanksgiving tournament.
http://events.gotsport.com/events/results.aspx?EventID=32571&GroupID=320307&Gender=Boys&Age=14
Games Points
Gottschee 66 22493
Marlboro 47 20947
Princeton 55 17886
NJS Gunners 49 16058
SJEB 52 15584
Haddonfield 35 15150
East Brunswick 52 14907
If you go with Points/Game
Marlboro & Haddonfield are 1,2
"If you go with Points/Game..."
How about if you go on games won on only Saturdays in September and only Sundays in October, and only in which the home team was wearing white?
Good point. I call Gottschee the current #1 not the contender, but your point is accurate.
Why are we counting points or points/game when it changes a lot every week...see how Haddonfield dropped and Marlboro moved up after 1 game?
The truth is Marlboro's quest for #1 will hinge on one game at 9:35AM 11/16 against Pachuca. If they can win that then the rest seems possible. I'm a doubter myself. On the flip side, I still say EBSC at 6th in EDP is still going to win EDP. I don't see who will stop them from getting to the finals at MAPS Challenge either. Princeton and Europa could, but both have been lackluster lately so EBSC looks like a lock.
You don't see the value at looking at a teams compiled points and then seeing how many games/tournaments it took them to achieve the points? Of course it matters.
I like this outside the box thinking. Is the team that has 10,000 points after 10 games better or worse than the team that has 12,000 points after 50 games.
Unfortunately this isn't the world we live in.
"Unfortunately this isn't the world we live in."
I am glad you said this. The world you live in is the never ending conversation / pursuit to be ranked #1.
Lets take Gottschee as an example since they are the current top ranked team. Got Soccer has them playing 66 games in the past 12 months. I don't think this number includes their current NYCSL fall schedule and all the scrimmages they have played. But I will take a guess and say the total is closer to 80 games.
This was suppose to be the old model of American soccer, that was all about playing and winning games but lacked the focus on developing players to play the right way.
The new model pushed by the U.S. Soccer Development Academy is highly focused on practice to game ratio.
The idea is to develop soccer players to play the right way not just win games and be ranked #1.
"I like this outside the box thinking."
Yeah, probably cause your kid's team isn't ranked where you'd like to see them.
Let's set up a bunch of rules that everybody can clearly understand and then, when things don't work out the way we like, let's complain that the rules are flawed and we should change them after the fact.
So a professional team is 3 games ahead in first place but the 2nd place team has played 6 fewer games, does that mean that the second place team shouldn't have that in their argument?
No one is saying to change the system. Just recognize it for what it is. It rewards a team for the quantity of games it plays almost as much as the quality. U.S. Academy teams are playing around 30 games a year. We've gotten ourselves into a rut playing 50-75 because we have to keep up with the Jones'. Not sure that's the healthiest thing for our boys is it?
Maybe your team is, but don't speak for all. Academy teams play 30 games per year? You don't have a son playing for an academy team do you? If you did, you would realize how ridiculous a statement that is.
I'm referring to the real Academy system and I do know what I'm talking about here.
http://ussda.demosphere.com/standings/2012-2013/47158343.html
http://ussda.demosphere.com/standings/2012-2013/47158344.html
"So a professional team is 3 games ahead in first place but the 2nd place team has played 6 fewer games, does that mean that the second place team shouldn't have that in their argument?"
Hey! The word "professional" should never be used in a discussion about GotSoccer rankings!
The 2nd pace team doesn't have an "argument." They have a 2nd place standing. And if this bothers them that much then they have a very clear picture on how to change it (if they can).
But any idea of "changing the rules" to somehow re-rank teams is just dumb. If you don't like GS's system, that's fine. I can certainly understand why. But it is what it is and attempts to translate it to something you prefer to read are pointless.
Did anyone say anything about changing the rules to re-rank teams? I thought some folks were merely pointing out a different way of looking at the numbers. I find the GotSoccer point and rankings to be valuable, informative, laughable and absurd—all at the same time. But one thing is for sure…it's a fascinating system.
Using the close-minded logic of the post immediately above me, the rest of the country would not consider Gottschee to be in the same league as Marlboro. Marlboro is 11th and Gottschee has no "argument" at 23rd, right?
Pts/Game means nothing unless you are playing the same competition. Why would GS switch to that? The beauty of GS is that it relates different leagues/tourneys/competitors across the country into one ranking.
GS does have a measure close to Pts/Game. It is win % and Goals Ratio. It used to be Haddonfield was off the charts on this measure. They were playing lesser competition. Now with some EDP and top level history under their belts the numbers have come back to earth. A team that moves up levels of competition should eventually get to a 50% win % at the proper level of competition. They are still usually better than a lower level league team with a 75% win %. Note the Stallions 99/00. They would be ahead of Marlboro or most anyone on Pts/Game and have a very high win % of 71.7 and Goal Ratio of 2.69. That suggests they should move up in competition to play the Marlboros etc. To conclude they should be ranked ahead of Marlboro or Princeton Black or Gottschee etc. would be WRONG. When they stepped up in level against Parsippany and Beachside they lost both games. I suspect the same would happen to them as Haddonfield in time at EDP 1st or in top flights of tourneys.
11/18 10:17PM
Yes...basically. No argument.
On total points Stallions 99/00 are 8th. On points/per game they are 10th.
Some times it actually helps to do the math.
Points per game includes the perceived quality of the opponent judged by got soccer.
Everyone has their opinion. I would take the team that is second on got soccer by 1500 points that has played a quality schedule and 19 games less.
I would take the team that has a #1 next to their name because they're the #1 ranked team.
LOL
What are y'all talking about?
Correct answer...none of the above.
Marlboro showed dominance over TSF today, but they weren't the only one. EBSC will soon be #1. Black Dawgs, Roma, Black...all really good too, but seriously....too inconsistent.
It was a dominating performance by Marlboro. It could have easily been 6 or 7 nothing. TSF must have had 10% possession for the game.
October 30, 2013 at 10:59 AM
"I took a look at GS rankings last night and saw a whole new development there call "Tier." It's gone again today so it looks like a it's work in progress."
It looks like the "tier" feature is back this morning on the National rankings (although the NJ rankings appear to be down). Anyway, it looks like tiers are being assigned based on total National points within the following parameters:
Diamond: over 20,000
Premier Elite: 10,000-19,999
Premier: 5,000-9,999
Platinum: 1,000-4,999
Gold: 250-999
Silver: 100-249
Bronze: 50-99
Copper:1-49
N/A: 0
Not sure what this will be used for (if anything. But they seem to have been working on it for a at least a few weeks now so I'm assuming it will have some significance.
Maybe you'll get to wear a special GS patch on your jersey now?
A real academy team plays more than 30 matches per year. They are not counting the friendlies which are abundant.
I've had a GS patch on my jersey for years now! Hasn't everyone?
The other EDP 1st Divisions are just about finished up. Pachuca looked to be cruising in the South Division until a draw and 2 losses in their final 3 matches (including a loss to Baltimore Celtic yesterday in what turned out to be a championship match) left them 2nd. So congrats to Baltimore Celtic on this championship!
In the North Division, FSA sits on top having finished their season with 17 points, just 1 ahead of NYSC. But if Gottschee Blue (NYE) can beat Yonkers and Beachside in their 2 remaining matches, they would push themselves to the top of this heap. So no congrats to anyone here just yet.
And here in NJ's Central Division, Marlboro has their fate in their own hands. A win for them over Gottschee Roma in their final league match would make them champs! But a loss or a draw would open the door for East Brunswick to win their last 2 and snag the prize away. Everyone else has already been eliminated.
Princeton Black is falling fast! Will they even be able to keep up with EBSC this weekend?
Well I guess it's now clear which Stallions team is the best. The 00/99's beat the Gunners 4-1 yesterday to take the 2nd Division Central!
Congrats to the Boys!
Was there really any question who was going to win that match? I think the real winner is the Stallions club because with SJEB's loss it looks like Stallions will go one-two in EDP. Great results.
Unfortunately, the Gunners will drop to 10K points w/o a good showing this weekend and will drop out of the top 10. The 99/00 team will be sitting on the edge of top 1% in the nation and poised to gain more ground come spring.
...and by the way who said SJEB is falling fast...did that team lose a key player or two? Away from that they are also on the edge of top 1% and not dropping in ranking anytime soon. They could make a good run in the spring. A few teams are positioned well for spring especially EBSC (and Haddonfield if they played spring).
EBSC is sitting pretty right now. They will not only finish fall top 3 and maybe #1, but they also have a low hurdle to keep climbing in points and national standing all throughout the spring into next fall too!After they faced a difficult fall and a battle to just stay top 10, I think you have to say, hands down, "coach of the season" award goes to them. They will be an interesting team to join over winter break and may get stronger still.
I think EBSC are still odds on favorite to end #1 in the fall. They have an easier route to the finals this weekend at MAPS Challenge. Unlikely Black has the chops to beat them. That's huge points there and I also think they will win EDP. Granted Marlboro has it in their control to win EDP still, but their task is much harder. Marlboro have to play #1 Gottschee in their last game and Roma has everything to lose. The Roma season and future spring could turn disastrous in just that one game if they lose! If they have any sense, expect those kids to come out like rabid werewolves. A loss knocks them off from #1 and drops them closer to the basement in EDP and puts them in a bad spot for spring when a high hurdle (opposite of EBSC) could see them moving even further down the rankings. Not pretty. That game should be something to watch with 2 teams laying it on the line!
Don't be so quick to crown EBSC yet. Gottschee has a lot to play for on the upside too! If they can win MAPS Challenge then they pretty much leave the next closest team almost 10K points behind. That is sitting pretty!
The best kids are already at academies by this age. The only ones left have no 1st touch. Argue if you will, but it's true.
ACADEMY UPDATE: Things are getting interesting at this age group.
MF drops out of top 10 at U14 replaced by World Class getting on the board for the first time.
The two powerhouses look to be NYRB (of course) and Gottschee who sits 2nd at both '99 and '00 age groups just behind NYRB. The Gottschee U14 academy team started off poorly after losing a lot of players to NYRB this season, but they have come roaring back in recent weeks to move into a 3 way tie on points for 2nd with NYSC who they just defeated head to head and only 1 goal behind MLS academy NE Revs on goal differential. This is especially interesting given that the two Gottschee feeder club teams at the same age group...both on track to be #1 in NJ and NY...fielded 5 '00 players called up to U14 national team training camp (2 from NJ and 3 from NY). That is on the club side not even from the academy teams. Talk about firepower just waiting in the wings!
...but you're right 2:33PM ...the only players left are the ones w/o any touch.
That is such a BS statement. Are there very good players on Academy teams, yes. Are there players that aren't that good on academy teams, yes. Academies have the advantage of new players trying out all the time, that is true. There are MANY very talented players, NOT on academy teams and will never will be.
The "no 1st touch" clown is a WUM! Humor him if you like but I'll chose to ignore it. It will go away much faster if you do too.
WUM? That is either a derogatory name for a woman or a wind-up merchant? I'll go with the latter.
I agree.
"WUM?"
Most definitely wasn't intended as a derogatory term for a woman. Sorry for any confusion.
If I've got this right, either Gottschee Roma, Marlboro or EBSC can clinch GotSoccer's year end #1 NJ ranking by winning the Maps Challenge, regardless or what shakes out in the EDP league.
Gottschee would end the year with over 27,000 points if they win the tournament (regardless of where the finish in EDP) and no one else can finish that high.
Even if Marlboro places 2nd in EDP, they would still end up with nearly 24,000 points should they win the tournament and no one could surpass them if they do.
But even if Marlboro hold on in EDP and EBSC finish 2nd in the league, EB would end up on top of the GS rankings with a win at the MAPS Challenge.
And here's one last (unlikely?) scenario to consider...with a league win over PDA and a league loss or draw by the Black Dawgs against Lehigh Valley, Princeton Black would probably finish no worse than 3rd in EDP and could then end up as GS's #1 with a win at the MAPS Challenge.
A few of the tournament teams also have EDP games scheduled for this weekend so I assume the league games will have to be made up at some other time. So if Gottschee, Marlboro or EBSC win this weekend it's over. But if Princeton Black were to win the tournament, we may need to wait a bit until we have a final answer on the GS #1.
This season has been pretty interesting with a shock State Cup winner and four other teams with each with shots at the #1 ranking as we come down the stretch!
"..and by the way who said SJEB is falling fast...did that team lose a key player or two? Away from that they are also on the edge of top 1% and not dropping in ranking anytime soon."
SJEB just dropped this morning and will likely drop even further as their year ago points vaporize.
Oh yeah! They moved down from #6 to #7 in NJ and held at #43 nationally just outside the top 1%. SJEB is dropping like a stone!
Okay, so maybe the idea behind the new Got Soccer tiers is becoming clearer.
http://www.gotsoccercup.com/clubsite/?p=7279
With their bracket in the top flight at the Bethesda tournament including VA's Arlington Eagles and MD's Olney Rangers (along with a team from IL), am I the only one thinking the Gunners may be in for some very tough turkey this Thanksgiving?
"SJEB just dropped this morning and will likely drop even further as their year ago points vaporize."
From what I can see, they'll drop only 620 more points between now and next May. A lot of teams have a lot more points that will "vaporize" before then.
One more thought about SJEB:
Even if they drop to 4th place in the EDP 2nd Division (which could easily happen), they are guaranteed to have at least 11,000 points next May 1st no matter what.
So might they drop a few slots in the rankings by then if they're unable to add to their points total? Probably. But those 11,000 points are likely to keep them either in or very near the top 10 until then.
Marlboro will win it all. They have been the strongest, most consistent team all fall despite comments on these boards. Goodluck!
Consistently average
You may look at the team and feel that way, but the results do not support your "average" opinion.
They have lost to a weak staten island team and lost to team (DOL) not in top 30 of nj. Give it a break
"...and lost to team (DOL) not in top 30 of nj. Give it a break"
Not that I want a piece of this slap fest but didn't a selection of top-ranked teams lose to DOL this fall?
Seems like a flick than a slap to me.
"Princeton Black is not your grandma's Upper Makefield. They are an all star mix half UM half MF00 plus the best striker at Philly Copaetc...you get the point. A Philadelphia area all star team. Every bit the NJ #1, National #5 they should be. Look out NJ. There is a new king of the hill on the field not just on paper. Beatable? Yes, but only if you can keep pace and very few teams can."
July 6, 2013 at 6:09 PM
With six months past since Princeton Black crossed the Delaware into the NJ rankings, I took the quote above from the old board. The idea that this team would become a powerhouse against whom all the lesser NJ teams would be measured seemed reasonable at the time to me too.
But as of today, here are the fall net point totals (points earned vs. points expired) for NJ's top 25 (excluding the PDA Academy team).
11335 / DEN OF LIONS MUSTANGS
7745 / NJ STALLIONS ACADEMY 99/00 BOYS
7508 / BSM GOTTSCHEE ROMA '99
6808 / MARLBORO SA GALAXY BLUE
5510 / NJ STALLIONS ACADEMY GUNNERS
4354 / SOUTH JERSEY ELITE BARONS '99
3169 / MOUNT LAUREL UNITED MLU GLADIATORS
2459 / PARSIPPANY SC CREW
1533 / JERSEY SHORE BOCA JR FC JUNIORS
1294 / PDA JINKY
1197 / HADDONFIELD SC BLACK DAWGS
491 / VISTULA FC VISTULA DRAGONS
486 / PRINCETON FC TOTTENHAM (NJ)
419 / WESTFIELD SA FC PREMIER COSMOS
360 / NEW JERSEY FORCE ARSENAL
359 / IRONBOUND SC NAVIGATORS
122 / EAST BRUNSWICK UNITED FC
-93 / MOUNT OLIVE PREMIER EVERTON
-1100 / DEPTFORD SDS DEPTFORD DRAGONS
-1181 / TSF ACADEMY
-2665 / PRINCETON SA PREMIER 99/00 ORANGE
-7691 / PDA ROONEY
-9716 / PRINCETON FC BLACK
Interestingly, the #'s 1 and 2 in the state last August 1st are the last two on the list above!
-10399 / SOCCER FOR LIFE SC TITANS
(Sorry but SFL somehow dropped off the list above).
While I like the reflection on how NJ stacked up against a PA newcomer isn't this list a little deceiving? A team can't control its point declines. That part is no reflection on how good the team is.
Their inability to maintain the point total (and rankings) they had when they arrived is telling. Everyone has points expire. Top teams find a way to replenish them.
Is it a case of them chasing too many points or just not being good enough? Seems like they should've walked to the State Cup final but didn't?
Anyone who has seen them play probably knows the answer..
PDA Rooney no longer being no.1 has an easy explanation, not retaining State Cup and the loss of Academy players. What excuse does Princeton have? I thought this was a dream team? Isn't that why they moved from PA, to prove they were a powerhouse?
Is that right? The Stallions netted more points this fall than Marlboro or Gottschee? That's kind of impressive.
Isn't this all a little silly though? I mean the comments against Marlboro above. Of course they are a good team. We will play against them. I wish them luck. They are kids and a good team. It will be tough to win.
We all got the impression that Princeton Black was some sort of Super Team. They're not.
Still, they're a very good team though and the possibility of them winning this weekend is reasonable.
But a team that none of the other NJ squads could possibly deal with? Hardly!
There is a new #1 in NJ and it is Marlboro! Great timing for the change. That should put some fear into Pachuca and others this weekend.
I'm not sure how they added some 4,000 points overnight or whether they will still be there by tomorrow, but...watch out!
It looks like a lot of teams got big point bumps overnight. EBSC...Gunners boosted to over 20K points etc. Is this a database error on gotsoccer's part or is it a correct update?
TOP 10 GROSS POINT ADDS:
1 EBSC -----------14194
2 Marlboro--------12869
3 Den of Lions-----11187
4 Black Dawgs------9667
5 Stallions 99/00 ---7745
6 SJEB-------------7652
7 Stallions Gunners--7407
8 BSM Gottschee-----7390
9 Princeton Tottenham-6254
10 Mt Laurel----------5261
This is what teams won this fall and the picture is a bit different. EBSC is not down at the bottom. They are the winningest team of the fall just outpacing Marlboro. If they win this weekend maybe they could top 20K points earned in one season. That is probably some sort of record!
Gottschee doesn't look nearly as good and Haddonfield looks much better. PDA, SFL, and Princeton Black still don't make the top 10.
Had you noticed that EDP scores have been posted twice? Once as an EDP result and then again as a CJYSA LEAGUE FALL 2013?
Looks like GS has duplicated the EDP league results in a different and separate league called CJYSA LEAGUE FALL 2013.
The EDP 1st Central group has been cut in two for this alternate league with Marlboro,Ironbound, TSF and Lehigh Valley in one group and EBSC. Princeton Black, PDA, Gottschee and Haddonfield in the other.
The result is that, along with the 6610 points Marlboro has been awarded for being on top in EDP, they are now getting an additional 3985 points for being 1st in their CJYSA league. Similarly, EBSC has added 4475 points for being on top of the other CJYSA division.
Seems like it's got to be a mistake as they are crediting teams with points for two separate events based on the results of just one (the EDP league). So we'll just have to wait and see if these CJYSA points eventually go away or not.
But if they don't go away then the year end #1 team scenarios are very different than they looked yesterday.
Considering the CJYSA points that have been added, here are the current point totals for the EDP 1st Central results this fall:
TEAM / EDP / CJYSA / TOTAL
MARLBORO SA GALAXY BLUE / 6610 / 3985 / 10595
EAST BRUNSWICK UNITED FC / 4481 / 4475 / 8956
HADDONFIELD SC BLACK DAWGS / 5155 / 3546 / 8701
TSF ACADEMY / 3572 / 1594 / 5166
PRINCETON FC BLACK / 1901 / 1451 / 3352
IRONBOUND SC NAVIGATORS / 0 / 2848 / 2848
BSM GOTTSCHEE ROMA '99 / 1221 / 461 / 1682
PDA ROONEY / 739 / 589 / 1328
LEHIGH VALLEY UNITED LVU BOYS '99 / 0 / 0 / 0
I have to think that is bogus. How can every one game count twice? Play one season and get credited for two? NJ teams will quickly go to the top of national rankings because all the other teams around the country play one game and get credit for one game.
Some showing for #1 Marlboro. 2 losses and 0 goals scored.
Tomorrow's showdowns....Princeton Black vs EBSC and Gottschee Roma vs Pachuca. Princeton Tottenham looks weak in 2nd division and NJ Stallions 99/00 look to be cruising.
"I have to think that is bogus. How can every one game count twice? Play one season and get credited for two? NJ teams will quickly go to the top of national rankings because all the other teams around the country play one game and get credit for one game."
Well, most of the country only uses Got Soccer for a fraction of their games anyway, so if the numbers are skewed a bit more, it's not that big a deal. The rankings system is most useful in comparing apples to apples, and for NJ it still works.
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